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The Dark Tide III: Eye of the Empire (* * * * *)

 
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Barry Brien
Dark Trooper Phase 1

Joined: 26 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Sep 13, 2006 15:20    Post subject: The Dark Tide III: Eye of the Empire (* * * * *) View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

It's finally out. I'm not going to review it yet, as I have still to play through the finished version, but I have decided to give it 5 stars, because it'd be ridiculous to give it anything less.

The MAZZTer
Death Star
Death Star

Joined: 25 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Sep 13, 2006 17:39    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

I've played through it. A few minor problems here and there, but overall a solid release. 4.5/5 from me.

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Geoffrey S
Gamorrean

Joined: 29 Jan 2005

PostPosted: Sep 13, 2006 18:33    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

You kidding? Best. DF. Level. Ever. Bugs are only there 'cause it's too good for DF; third release should add cutscenes, which is ace.

Nottheking
Kell Dragon

Joined: 29 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Sep 25, 2006 16:10    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Eh, to me, this is like the The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion of DF levels. At its face, the thing is friggin' beautiful. Ingenious design comes together with excellent aesthetics and clever gameplay.

A real shame the thing's pretty close to un-playable due to the bugginess. I'll have to thin a bit more before I actually get more in-depth here...

_________________
Wake up, George Lucas... The Matrix has you..

Taylor
Gamorrean

Joined: 25 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Dec 05, 2006 05:17    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

I'm somewhat disappointed. Its got an unprecedented number of bugs that I doubt even the worst add-on level for DF had. It was mildly entertaining but spent too much time showing off in such small missions. The reflecting floors were cool and the droid control thing was fun, but was kinda already done by Mysteries of the Sith (I think... maybe it was JO). It just really didn't seem like a worthy installment in the Dark Tide series, to be brutally honest. Then again I was expecting a lot after loving The Dark Tide 2 so much...

Patrick Haslow
Trandoshan

Joined: 25 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Dec 05, 2006 07:36    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Taylor wrote:
I'm somewhat disappointed. Its got an unprecedented number of bugs that I doubt even the worst add-on level for DF had.



Then again, Coober and Mines were so simple that there wasn't even much of an opportunity for bugs to occur!

That's a shame you were disappointed...I'll have to try harder next time. As was documented in the release thread, the missions seemed to operate differently depending on the machine they were played on. By the time I released the latest version, it rarely crashed on me. That's just what happens when you try to make it do more than DF was designed to do.

As an example of how long this project was in development- I planned the early versions of the droid control level first in 2001, before a similiar idea was seen in Jedi Outcast. To be honest I was bummed when they beat me to it!

I feel it necessary to defend the size of the missions. If I do a speed-run through the missions of DTIII and then many of the original DF missions, I find they are of similiar size and duration.

Obviously, I cannot reverse your disappointment, but since I spent so damnn long on this project I thought a few things about it needed to be on record.

Nottheking
Kell Dragon

Joined: 29 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Dec 11, 2006 20:45    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Well, not too long ago, SOMEHOW, the thing started working correctly. Thus, I got to be impressed; to be honest, I did NOT get to see either of the "kaboom" scenes in the first level; the scripting simply never loaded for the shuttle intro, (I could tell it wasn't going to work when it went through the entire voicing for the intro and I still saw black) nor the finale of the train scene. I must say, AMAZING work with the .CMPs there; one could pretty much swear it was a vastly newer game.

However, length-wise, they were kinda fine to me, now that I could play them through without hiccups. I'll have to go through the second two levels and try to get them to work well before judging them.

On another note, I still have not managed to get more than the initial intro cutscene (textcrawl) to work, and in no places has it used the .GMDs. I trie re-importing the STALK-10.GMD file into the GOB as all the other STALK-xx.GMD files, but all I suceeded in doing is making the game crash upon trying to load up the game, claiming some sort of memory glitch. To date, I've yet to hear the level's music.

In truth, though, I still kinda feel that the game spends a bit too much time showing off than providing actual gameplay. Especially when it takes several minutes from hitting "start mission" before you can actually play. The one single minute for Prelude to Harkov's Defection was about the best I really could bear.

_________________
Wake up, George Lucas... The Matrix has you..

Patrick Haslow
Trandoshan

Joined: 25 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Dec 11, 2006 21:07    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

There aren't any custom GMIDs...
Matt H wrote:
There's a reason you can't hear the music during the beginning - there isn't any. Not yet, anyway. That's one of those things I'm still working on.



I am still puzzled by all the "lack of gameplay" comments though. Compared to what? The originals? Other Mods? Not enough puzzles? I think at this stage in DF's life (or afterlife), if an add-on doesn't go out of its way to freshen it up, then there is no point. I'll start it up and be bored in a minute flat. Maybe DF veterans are just generally bored with shooting WAX enemies to death.

milo_antu
Gamorrean

Joined: 19 Oct 2006

PostPosted: Dec 20, 2006 15:19    Post subject: Trouble the 1st Level View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

This is so far the baddest (as in good) of the custom made DF series next to the creator of the "morning wood" and "condition red".


Last edited by milo_antu on Dec 21, 2006 18:39; edited 1 time in total

Patrick Haslow
Trandoshan

Joined: 25 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Dec 21, 2006 13:05    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Moff Rebus? I am not sure which episode of The Dark Tide you were playing. He appears in Episodes I and II, but this thread is about Episode III.

milo_antu
Gamorrean

Joined: 19 Oct 2006

PostPosted: Dec 21, 2006 18:37    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Patrick Haslow wrote:
Moff Rebus? I am not sure which episode of The Dark Tide you were playing. He appears in Episodes I and II, but this thread is about Episode III.



Ya i was just mentioning that lil part on episode I, Never mind that quote, ill do that part over again.

gustavus
Dianoga

Joined: 15 May 2006

PostPosted: Dec 23, 2006 20:12    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

I'm rather upset at the amount of criticism that DT3 has received, so I thought it necessary to post in support of all the work Patrick and Matt have put into it.

After watching for release updates on the forum for years, I was very happy that Parts 1 and 2 both came out at times when I was home from college and able to play them on the old Win 98 machine. To my immense satisfaction, it measured up to all my expectations and still managed to awe me at many points and provide innovative and enjoyable gameplay.

From the crash in the shuttle bay to the harrowing train ride to the Dark Trooper and Spacetrooper battle on the elevator, I was was impressed at every turn by how this 12 year old game has been pushed so far beyond what its creators originally intended. The visuals are simply stunning; the whole look of Dark Forces was revamped to create the Invisor space station. Features like textured 3dos, breakable glass, and slanted surfaces abound. Sounds were changed. The Black Whirlwind returned. New enemies everywhere. Need I go on?

These levels are right up there with Beyond Glory 2 and Dungeons of Gamorrah as the most "atmospheric" ever made. A completely immersive gaming experience.

I can't honestly understand why the gameplay has been so maligned. It was innovative and challenging, not to mention extremely enjoyable. I can run through rooms full of dark troopers, plant a sequencer charge, and escape to the Moldy Crow in any old mission. It's not every day that I get to ride floating platforms through halls of zombie-like clones shooting down flying stormtroopers.

The second mission was definitely the most enjoyable gameplay wise in addition to being the best overall. The first was also excellent in that respect. Level three was interesting and unusual, making a good transition to the short but sweet concluding mission.

Constant crashing and scripts not working would definitely have put a damper on my enjoyment of the missions. Unlike a lot of the people here however, I had no bug problems at all except for the objective issue in Mission 2 that was quickly fixed.

Two minor criticisms both come from level 4 and are kind of related. I found the drugged-up superstructure jumping puzzle highly irritating. As a result of frequent gameovers on that section, I had to sit through the overly long interrogation an absurd number of times. The interrogation should be a cutscene in my opinion.

This brings me to my next point: I would really like to see the final version of the mission released, containing both parts with full cutscenes and the Dark Trooper replacement WAXs. Until that happens, Dark Tide 3 will stay in the "unfinished masterpiece" category for me.

Overall though, Dark Tide 3 stands in my mind as the most technically ambitious and impressive mission ever made for Dark Forces. The sheer amount of work making these levels must have taken is incredible, and it shows in the finished (unfinished?) product. Whatever happens to the Dark Forces community from here, I am very thankful that DT3 was finally released and lived up to my lofty expectations. Great work, guys. And good luck at the new job, Patrick.

Burning Gundam
Kell Dragon

Joined: 28 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Dec 25, 2006 00:29    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

I'm not saying that the levels were bad or anything, in fact, I still rather enjoyed it overall. I'm only saying that the bugs and other things that made some of the levels (on a mac anyway), virtually unplayable. This unfortunately shifts the balance quite a bit, in which the quality of the level and attention to detail also is directly proportional to the ammount of bugs. So for the time being, my rating still stands, but I still applaud them for the time and effort. I even feel a little bad that I found myself slightly dissappointed. But this is just one of those things that happen when you totally overclock an old game engine.

Edit: I just realized I never rated the level in this thread. I gave it 7 of 10. The attention to detail and story the level(s) tell is uncanny and by far the most unique ever seen in the Dark Forces world. However, with all the present bugs that tend to cause random crashes and other unwanted effects seem to outweigh the good in some situations. I applaud the effort, but it would be nice to get the full experience without the unpleasantries.

_________________
I don't think outside the box... I customize it.

milo_antu
Gamorrean

Joined: 19 Oct 2006

PostPosted: Dec 26, 2006 16:41    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

[quote="gustavus"]I'm rather upset at the amount of criticism that DT3 has received, so I thought it necessary to post in support of all the work Patrick and Matt have put into it.

Grr you beat me to the big speach Evil or Very Mad no matter, but any way. ya I too was blown by that amazing train ride, at first i wanted to see what would happen if i were to jump off. But i only had one life left and i didn't want to mess up the the game by typing a cheat. But, OMG that was unlike ANYTING I would see in any other DF level. George L. would be richer if he hired this creator.

Nottheking
Kell Dragon

Joined: 29 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Jan 17, 2007 02:44    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Perhaps I should re-phrase what I had said about DT III. The level, as it is, is actually great. Perhaps the main problem with it, though, is perhaps it tries to be TOO innovative. It seems to forget what it's supposed to be: A mission in a game. Dark Forces is a first-person shooter. As such, action-based gameplay involving firefights should remain the core of the action. Puzzles are great to have, but they should perhaps remain merely something as a major point of a level, not as the crux of the whole gameplay.

Most of the combat sections weren't terribly interesting. The first room, minus the opportunity to show off the reflective floor, may as well not have been there, or not have had enemies there; design-wise, it's just a big, open area filled with stormies.

The hallways are a bit better, but still not much improved; many of them, as I recall, are pretty empty even on "hard."

The worst, though, is perhaps the room of AT-STs. The AT-ST from DT II was great, but to see a room full of them, and having to go through them to find a key, just kinda ruined the enjoyment of it.

However, as for one plus side, the FIRST part of the train ride was interesting; the idea of riding along and shooting at other enemies riding other vehicles is one that I've had for a while, but never really figured out how to implement properly. However, gameplay-wise, it's a bit limited due to your ability to hit said enemies, as well as the fact that your ammo becomes limited at that point. Perhaps if it was much more brief...

Overall, the level is good as eye candy, but unlike what I said for, say, DT II, a lot of it just doesn't feel as functional. One should remember that the original Dark Forces levels would certainly all (or almost all) get a 5-star rating even today, even though they are hardly as flashy.
    Quality: 95%
    Atmosphere: 99%
    Innovation: 100%
    Gameplay: 86%
    OVERALL: 95%


_________________
Wake up, George Lucas... The Matrix has you..

Barry Brien
Dark Trooper Phase 1

Joined: 26 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Jan 18, 2007 11:47    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

I disagree. I know that gameplay should be first and foremost in any custom missions, but consider how old DF is and how many custom missions there are out there. Your criticism of the main hangar is a bit unfair. It's at the very start of the first level! It wouldn't make sense to have it any tougher. I think the difficulty curve throughout the 3 levels is spot on.
Anyway, I reckon DTIII is just as good as it's predecessors. Its got a great combination of playability, originality and prettiness. I mean some of the stuff going on in this mission set is unheard of! The train ride, the r2 minilevel, the torture sequence, the shuttle crash to name just a few. Anybody who criticises DTIII is just jealous! Smile

Flyer Seven
Dianoga

Joined: 05 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Jan 19, 2007 04:06    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

What else would there be in a hangar bay besides a bunch of stormtroopers? Seems consistent with what we know about the Star Wars Universe, to me...

Nottheking
Kell Dragon

Joined: 29 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Jan 31, 2007 21:05    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

I think you two might've missed my point on my criticism of the hangar. Or, quite as liable, I wasn't anywhere clear enough in how I posted it.

Yes, it's the beginning of the first level in the set. However, it's also INCREDIBLY simple in design; remove the reflective floor and shuttle crash sequence, and you have something that wouldn't be out of place in, say, a two-star level. It's just a flat upper ledge, and a big square area below, with stormtroopers placed about.

I never said that it wasn't DIFFICULT enough, I said that it wasn't INTERESTING enough; a good appearance merits being coupled with good gameplay. Probably the biggest change I'd have liked to see is if there were a degree of cover to be found in that level, that both you and the enemies could make use of. For instance, the hangar bays in the Executor level had collumns at the sides.

At the very least, I probably would've DECREASED the number of stormtroopers; my main point was that too much time was spent dealing with them, when it wasn't terribly innovative, creative, or fun. Less fighting stormies also might've meant more time to admire the appearance of the floor. And for good effect, I might've designed the level to go out one door, then eventually make one more pass back through that area.

_________________
Wake up, George Lucas... The Matrix has you..

dark tide
Dianoga

Joined: 31 Jan 2007

PostPosted: Feb 01, 2007 21:04    Post subject: stuck View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

i am stuck i cant find what to do next. im up to the hanger with at-st

dark tide
Dianoga

Joined: 31 Jan 2007

PostPosted: Feb 02, 2007 17:00    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

never mind i finished. this is a awesome level best one i ever played!

Patrick Haslow
Trandoshan

Joined: 25 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Feb 15, 2007 17:45    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Ummmm....to address:

The hangar is only one big room out of the entire level, and the only reason it is so big is that spaceships land there.

Once you have defeated the initial group of enemies there after crash landing, you could literally spend hours admiring the floor.

In the first level you do go out of the hangar bay through one way (the ladder), and then after doing a lot of other stuff you come around back to the hangar through a broken window and then through the hangar and out again, this time through the sliding blast doors.

In summation, it serves as kind of a juncture of different routes, and it wasn't meant to do much else.

As a side note, an earlier build of DTIII had the hangar door open and Zero-G troopers fly in to attack on the 2nd pass though, but the WAX generators kept crashing the level.

CrisG
Dianoga

Joined: 05 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Jan 12, 2008 05:45    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

OK i can see this is a must have mod, on the way to find it now. The droid control thingy was indeed in JKO in the very beginning of the original game and a great expansion on the player interaction, glad to see that added into this mod.

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There is no Chaos. There is Harmony.

Patrick Haslow
Trandoshan

Joined: 25 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Jan 12, 2008 05:56    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Holy Sh!t! Was that dude up there always named "dark tide"? Hahaha! Awesome.


p.s. Nobody would believe me if I told that I designed DT's droid control bit before JKO, but I did. Matt H knows!

CrisG
Dianoga

Joined: 05 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Jan 13, 2008 00:12    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Wow Patrick, that is really excellent to hear. It is a great idea and a lot of fun and really expands the sense of immersion in game. thanks for sharing that. Smile

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Burning Gundam
Kell Dragon

Joined: 28 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Oct 24, 2008 00:37    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

I realize that my last review was a bit harsh, but under the circumstances it seemed justified to me. However, now that I've played through it in DOSBox (which plays better with fewer issues than the mac) I'm actually able to complete the levels without them randomly crashing on me.

Still has a few bugs and issues, but are minor compared to my previous complaints.

I change my rating from 7/10 to 9/10.

_________________
I don't think outside the box... I customize it.

Patrick Haslow
Trandoshan

Joined: 25 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Oct 25, 2008 05:39    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Its okay. I forgive you.

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