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sheepandshepherd
Trandoshan

Joined: 01 Apr 2008

PostPosted: May 30, 2008 21:53    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Good job Smile the "Reveal Secrets" thing doesn't work, but since secrets are already purple on the map, we could just delete it . . .

Weregoose
Gamorrean

Joined: 05 May 2008

PostPosted: May 31, 2008 00:22    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

sheepandshepherd wrote:
Good job Smile the "Reveal Secrets" thing doesn't work, but since secrets are already purple on the map, we could just delete it . . .

No? It works fine on the four browsers that I've tested it on... Of course, JavaScript has to be enabled. (And styles.) What browser + version are you using, and under what obscure influence is it continuing to operate? Wink

Anyway, the Secrets section is there to explain/outline the minimum requirements for accessing each hidden sector. A purple figure doesn't say much about having to throw a switch on the other side of the stage, for example, and for this reason I find its omission to be an impairment to the article.

Now, I'm brainstorming a new section, "Quirks," to go alongside that in each level page. It'll address a few specifics such as the Ewok locations, misplaced textures, any possible exploits, hard-to-reach areas, and odd occurrences like the Gromas Mines sequencer charge failing to start if the platform is not stood on long enough. Don't know that one? It was a real doozy during my speed runs.

[EDIT]

Should I recolor the maps to hide secrets and triggers? My gut's telling me "no."

sheepandshepherd
Trandoshan

Joined: 01 Apr 2008

PostPosted: May 31, 2008 00:46    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Weregoose wrote:
No? It works fine on the four browsers that I've tested it on... Of course, JavaScript has to be enabled. (And styles.) What browser + version are you using, and under what obscure influence is it continuing to operate? Wink


I'm using Firefox 2.0.0.14 with javascript and styles enabled . . . everything else on that page works fine, don't know why that one doesn't . . . all it says is
Quote:
Placing headers in here will add them into the table of contents. Please avoid this!


. . . unless that's what it's supposed to say Surprised

Weregoose wrote:
Should I recolor the maps to hide secrets and triggers? My gut's telling me "no."


Idk, maybe if you had time you could have a button that switches between the normal map and the recolored one, but I don't really see the point of a map without triggers and secret sectors shown . . .

sheepandshepherd
Trandoshan

Joined: 01 Apr 2008

PostPosted: May 31, 2008 00:55    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

One thing that would be neat would be if we could just click the secret sector in the map to have it show the instructions for reaching it . . . but that would take days of work Sad and I don't know how to do it.

But anyways, on Floor 2, some of the walls from the final elevator are shown . . . why? I know it's like that in WDFUSE, but I don't get it . . .

Weregoose
Gamorrean

Joined: 05 May 2008

PostPosted: May 31, 2008 01:01    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

sheepandshepherd wrote:
all it says is
Quote:
Placing headers in here will add them into the table of contents. Please avoid this!


. . . unless that's what it's supposed to say Surprised

Then it's working perfectly. Smile

sheepandshepherd wrote:
I don't really see the point of a map without triggers and secret sectors shown . . .

I don't see much use in an all-green map, either. I'd like this wiki to be aimed at modders as much as (if not more than) players.

sheepandshepherd wrote:
But anyways, on Floor 2, some of the walls from the final elevator are shown . . . why? I know it's like that in WDFUSE, but I don't get it . . .

I haven't the slightest. I'm using WDFUSE to extract information, but I've never made a level with it. (Being in the scene now, however, it's really starting to tempt me.)

sheepandshepherd
Trandoshan

Joined: 01 Apr 2008

PostPosted: May 31, 2008 01:48    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Imagine Kyle as the little devil on your shoulder whispering into your ear Laughing

I doubt non-modders will really use the map anyway.

Darth Oosha
Trandoshan

Joined: 24 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Jun 01, 2008 04:26    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Weregoose wrote:
Now, I'm brainstorming a new section, "Quirks," to go alongside that in each level page. It'll address a few specifics such as the Ewok locations, misplaced textures, any possible exploits, hard-to-reach areas, and odd occurrences like the Gromas Mines sequencer charge failing to start if the platform is not stood on long enough.


Maybe "Notes" or "Other notes"?

sheepandshepherd
Trandoshan

Joined: 01 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Jun 01, 2008 15:03    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Yeah, it'd be a very useful section . . . maybe call it "Trivia", i know that's where a lot of Wikipedia pages have interesting information that doesn't really fit anywhere else.

Weregoose
Gamorrean

Joined: 05 May 2008

PostPosted: Jun 02, 2008 03:30    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

What a rush! I got all the maps completed over the last couple of days, did some file renaming, prepared the level pages so that content can be spilled in, and then made a few relatively unnoticeable changes in the style sheet to repair some things that have been bothering me.

I went with "Notes" instead of "Trivia" because the latter term suggests worthless info, and much of what will go in there is not.

Next on my list is very minor: adding transparency for the weapons.

As a side, in case you haven't found it out yet, the level include I put together is extensible enough where you can use it for level sets other than the default set for Dark Forces. Each of the missions in a given series can be tied together with a common theme involving a shared header and links to one another, along with custom text and background colors to present the right feel for your level. Just something to think about, for whatever reason. Wink

Weregoose
Gamorrean

Joined: 05 May 2008

PostPosted: Jun 03, 2008 05:46    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

It turned out to be harder than I expected! I was forced to learn how to edit palettes in order to discern between black and transparency, plus the FME->BMP converter in WDFUSE refused to work, so I ended up taking a bunch of screenshots.

Well, it's done now, and I was able to make a new page out of it. Magenta is the transparency color, but transparency isn't enabled. I am aware of palette conflicts with regard to Gromas Mines, Sewers, et al. This is for viewing and reference purposes only.

Weregoose
Gamorrean

Joined: 05 May 2008

PostPosted: Jun 05, 2008 02:39    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Update:
  • Filled out the secrets section for the first level.
  • Added internal links to the existing plot descriptions.
  • Made some additional tweaks in the style sheet (it'll be an ongoing process…).
And I am now ordering you people to play through your favorite stages and write out sans-secret level walkthroughs. Smile

If each person takes on one or two missions (and we all critique each other afterward), then we'll have this level set done in no time.

Feel free to start here for now.

Weregoose
Gamorrean

Joined: 05 May 2008

PostPosted: Jun 28, 2008 07:26    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Happy birthday to me... Happy birthday to me... http://df-21.wikidot.com/start. *falls asleep*

Weregoose
Gamorrean

Joined: 05 May 2008

PostPosted: Jul 13, 2008 22:15    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

http://df-21.wikidot.com/wax:commando

TMI?

If not, should I give it a more nested behavior (i.e., waxes→sequences→frames→cells)?

Right now, the source is easy as pie (see below). I have a template in place (along with a couple includes) which pretty much takes care of everything.

Code:
22
====
59
====
36
====
13
====
||~ 1 ||= 5356 ||= 4 ||~ 17 ||= 7020 ||= 1 ||
||~ 2 ||= 5484 ||= 4 ||~ 18 ||= 7052 ||= 1 ||
etc.
====
||~ 1 ||= 5356 ||= 24935 ||= (-14,-67) ||= No ||
||~ 2 ||= 5388 ||= 26428 ||= (-15,-68) ||= No ||
etc.
====
[[include inc:wax-cell |e=1|n=7244|c=C|w=38|h=71|s=1520|i=20]]
[[include inc:wax-cell |e=2|n=8764|c=C|w=38|h=77|s=1576|i=35]]
etc.
====
[[include inc:wax-seq2 n=1|w=72089|h=72089|r=5
|1=2188|2=2332|3=2476|4=2620|5=2764|6=2908|7=3052|8=3196]]
[[include inc:wax-seq1 n=2|w=72089|h=72089|r=6|p=3340]]
etc.


Fenwar
Admiral Ackbar
Admiral Ackbar

Joined: 15 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Jul 14, 2008 19:04    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Not sure how much use that data is without explanation, really... the basics of the file format would be more what I would expect to see. AFAIK the DF specs currently only exist in Windows Help File format - would maybe be a good starting point for a lot of content?

Weregoose
Gamorrean

Joined: 05 May 2008

PostPosted: Jul 14, 2008 22:48    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

I just did a bunch of reading on this participation inequality thing, and pretty much reevaluated the likelihood of anything ever getting done with this wiki. People are more likely to edit than to build from scratch, so what I'll have to try and enact is the person whose sole role is to whip up tons of pages with meager content and then hope that others will look at it and try to make it look nicer.

Problem is, I've never been among the 1% of users that effortlessly produces the majority of a site's content, as I like things to be in perfect form before they're ever made public, but I'll have to stretch myself a little bit to get things going. All I can ask is that someone else will realize what I have and then dedicate some fruitful effort towards the same goal – not for the sake of me, but for the wiki.

This is nothing if not someone's project. A seed doesn't beg for water. We have to give for it to grow.

I guess I'll have to start planting those seeds. Smile


Last edited by Weregoose on Jul 15, 2008 01:06; edited 1 time in total

Magic_Al
Gamorrean

Joined: 22 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Jul 15, 2008 00:14    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Fenwar wrote:
Not sure how much use that data is without explanation, really... the basics of the file format would be more what I would expect to see. AFAIK the DF specs currently only exist in Windows Help File format - would maybe be a good starting point for a lot of content?



An HTML version of the DF Specs formerly existed at http://code-alliance.com/~editors/darkforces/docs/spc_home/df_specs.htm but because of the highly questionable robots.txt exclusion policy at archive.org the current owner of code-alliance.com (advertising squatter) can prevent the Wayback Machine from displaying the real Code Alliance's past content, content which they do not own and never owned AFAIK. Apparently in archive.org's mind buying a domain gives you the right to censor all of that domain's history. I've complained to archive.org and we'll see what happens.

I don't suppose anybody saved a copy of the HTML DF specs.

_________________
----- MagicAl`s DARK FORCES Niche -----
http://homepage.mac.com/anewmanagn/magic_al/

Armed only with a blaster pistol and an intimate knowledge of
Imperial methods, MagicAl prepares to go to lunch....

Weregoose
Gamorrean

Joined: 05 May 2008

PostPosted: Jul 15, 2008 02:13    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Archive.org actually did get a part of the df specs squirreled away. This is all they had (of Dark Forces, not including Jedi Knight or Outcast). They butchered the source, flattened the directory tree, and apparently couldn't index any pages that were reachable only through links that had anchors. Thus, these pages are missing:

f_filefo.htm
f_refern.htm
mainlist.htm
s_doom.htm
s_jdsfx.htm
s_palplt.htm
s_sndgob.htm
s_sound.htm
s_sprgob.htm
s_vue.htm
s_wax.htm

Note that if you want to navigate what's contained in the .zip above, none of the links therein are actually linking to one another, but instead to archive.org. I assume that any revision of these specifications would call for an exhaustive structural rewrite anyhow.

Magic_Al
Gamorrean

Joined: 22 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Jul 15, 2008 02:57    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

I have just successfully recovered the complete DF Specs 3.02 HTML from archive.org! Very Happy

Although code-alliance.com archives are inaccessible due to a link farm's robots.txt file, some Google traces revealed/reminded me that Code Alliance previously was darkjedi.com, whose domain was taken from them by Lucasfilm in 2000. Lucasfilm did not block archive.org.

http://web.archive.org/web/19980610180704/http://www.darkjedi.com/

The online version of the specs are incomplete but amazingly a zip download is completely intact. Here it is (rehosted):

Arrow http://homepage.mac.com/anewmanagn/magic_al/dfsht302.zip

I suggest hosting it on df-21 ASAP.

EDIT: What other goodies might be in here?
http://web.archive.org/web/19990224224642/http://www.darkjedi.com/djfiles.htm

_________________
----- MagicAl`s DARK FORCES Niche -----
http://homepage.mac.com/anewmanagn/magic_al/

Armed only with a blaster pistol and an intimate knowledge of
Imperial methods, MagicAl prepares to go to lunch....

Weregoose
Gamorrean

Joined: 05 May 2008

PostPosted: Jul 15, 2008 03:48    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

I ran it through PKZip Fix and recompressed for WinZip/WinRAR compatibility—Click.

klasodeth
Trandoshan

Joined: 03 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Jul 15, 2008 08:46    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

I added a few more plot summaries to the wiki, as well as adding brief descriptions of the Death Star Plans and Phrik. I've been making an effort to play through Dark Forces on Hard, so perhaps I'll be able to write some walkthroughs. With all those obnoxious turrets in the Research Facility, it is in particular need of a walkthrough.

Fenwar
Admiral Ackbar
Admiral Ackbar

Joined: 15 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Jul 15, 2008 20:45    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

And bizarrely (although as far as I know it's never been linked to or listed on the download page) - we have a file in our archives called dfspc302.zip.

Guess what's inside.

I should have a look at what we actually do got, shouldn't I. Surprised

Magic_Al
Gamorrean

Joined: 22 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Jul 16, 2008 00:30    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Fenwar wrote:
And bizarrely (although as far as I know it's never been linked to or listed on the download page) - we have a file in our archives called dfspc302.zip.

Guess what's inside.

I should have a look at what we actually do got, shouldn't I. Surprised



You got the Ark of the Covenant in there too? Laughing

_________________
----- MagicAl`s DARK FORCES Niche -----
http://homepage.mac.com/anewmanagn/magic_al/

Armed only with a blaster pistol and an intimate knowledge of
Imperial methods, MagicAl prepares to go to lunch....

klasodeth
Trandoshan

Joined: 03 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Jul 16, 2008 01:20    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

If he does, don't open it until I'm out of the room. Razz

Weregoose
Gamorrean

Joined: 05 May 2008

PostPosted: Aug 26, 2008 20:06    Post subject: Still Kicking... View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

While it's not much, I finished a small library of 3DO files (here's SHUTTLE.3DO), added a cute little stub message (as seen here), and h̶a̶c̶k̶e̶d decorated the editing toolbar – something which you'll only be able to see if you start to add/edit a page. Wink

To append the stub notice to any of your pages, write [[include inc:stub]] down at the bottom. Simple.

The MAZZTer
Death Star
Death Star

Joined: 25 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Aug 26, 2008 23:12    Post subject: Re: Still Kicking... View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

Weregoose wrote:
h̶a̶c̶k̶e̶d



I'm not sure if you were trying to cross that word out or not, but you failed. Only Safari displays it looking anything like a cross out (and you missed the first two letters). IE and Opera show little boxes, and Firefox shows underlines.

Silly Mac users, assuming everyone else uses Safari.

_________________
http://www.mzzt.net/ | I am a respectable admin with a respectable sig.

Darth Oosha
Trandoshan

Joined: 24 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Aug 27, 2008 00:19    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

I'm on Firefox 2 on XP and it appears struckthrough for the first five letters, so nyah.

The MAZZTer
Death Star
Death Star

Joined: 25 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Aug 27, 2008 03:44    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

You know that "Upgrade to Firefox 3" dialog you got earlier today? You should listen to it.

And it probably depends on the character encoding used to decode the page. [Edit: Nope, looks the same in every character encoding in Firefox 3 to me.]

_________________
http://www.mzzt.net/ | I am a respectable admin with a respectable sig.


Last edited by The MAZZTer on Aug 27, 2008 03:50; edited 1 time in total

Weregoose
Gamorrean

Joined: 05 May 2008

PostPosted: Aug 27, 2008 03:46    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Firstly, I'm on Windows XP and Firefox. Great assumption. Secondly, you failed to support Unicode 2.0, which was rolled out thee major versions and 12 years ago. Arial Unicode MS or Lucida Sans Unicode (or even Lucida Grande for Macs) are popular fonts that have provided this support for quite some time, and most computers should come pre-equipped with them these days.

Firefox gets it right (completely; I could give you a screenshot if I wanted to), as does the hellish Safari for Windows. Opera's an unfortunate enigma – the en dash won't even show up for me by default, and so I've tended to push it aside (my test, then, wouldn't benefit anyone). And Internet Explorer's hardly worth the assessment, as it tends to get everything horribly wrong.

As for "missing letters," if you had grasped or even researched using combining diacritical marks, and then observed my use of them while you were quoting my post, then you'd know that that was a ridiculous comment to make. They have zero width and a negative left margin, so they merge backwards to produce a character not otherwise defined in the Unicode standard.

So, as soon as we're done derailing this topic with this nonsense, we may all hope to put forth something valuable to this thread. Or not.

The MAZZTer
Death Star
Death Star

Joined: 25 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Aug 27, 2008 04:01    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

I am also on Windows XP and Firefox. Thanks for assuming I was not.

Also, I don't tend to set my own fonts for individual web pages.

In addition, when placing non-ANSI characters into an HTML document, you're supposed to use the appropriate HTML character code as opposed to putting the character in directly or using a numeric code, otherwise it may decode differently in different character encodings.

Example: résumé is wrong
r‚sum‚ is wrong
résumé is correct

Perhaps I should just get to the main reason why I disapprove of your en-dashes, other than the fact they look like underlines to me.

HTML/CSS defines a standard way to strikeout text that will render correctly in all browsers. HTML4 defines <strike> (now deprectated) while CSS has text-decoration: line-through (what I use).

Of course, all that doesn't help if one can't use the tags, which brings me to my final point: I don't have a final point.

_________________
http://www.mzzt.net/ | I am a respectable admin with a respectable sig.

Weregoose
Gamorrean

Joined: 05 May 2008

PostPosted: Aug 27, 2008 04:50    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

The_Mega_ZZTer wrote:
I am also on Windows XP and Firefox. Thanks for assuming I was not.

Also, I don't tend to set my own fonts for individual web pages.

In addition, when placing non-ANSI characters into an HTML document, you're supposed to use the appropriate HTML character code as opposed to putting the character in directly or using a numeric code, otherwise it may decode differently in different character encodings.

Example: résumé is wrong
r‚sum‚ is wrong
r&eacute;sum&eacute; is correct

Perhaps I should just get to the main reason why I disapprove of your en-dashes, other than the fact they look like underlines to me.

HTML/CSS defines a standard way to strikeout text that will render correctly in all browsers. HTML4 defines <strike> (now deprectated) while CSS has text-decoration: line-through (what I use).

Of course, all that doesn't help if one can't use the tags, which brings me to my final point: I don't have a final point.




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