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Feature Request: Fancy Texture Scaling

 
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sweatervest
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Joined: 22 Apr 2008

PostPosted: May 01, 2008 17:22    Post subject: Feature Request: Fancy Texture Scaling View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

I think I remember lucius talking about vectorizing the edges of sprites and stuff like that, so what I am about to suggest may already be on the list of things to do, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

I think it would be really neat if there was an option to choose how the sprites and textures are upscaled. Right now it likes like bilinear or trilinear filtering, but in addition to that scalers like hq4x, lq4x, super eagle, super 2xSaI, and scale4x (at least most of which are open source and readily available) could also be chosen to give the game a different look (with the user of course deciding which looks best). Of course this isn't something to worry about until after full DF functionality, but I think having that feature could really push the look of DarkXL beyond similar engines like jDoom (if jDoom can do that I don't know how to select it).

lucius
DarkXL Developer
DarkXL Developer

Joined: 17 Feb 2008

PostPosted: May 01, 2008 18:49    Post subject: Re: Feature Request: Fancy Texture Scaling View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

sweatervest wrote:
I think I remember lucius talking about vectorizing the edges of sprites and stuff like that, so what I am about to suggest may already be on the list of things to do, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

I think it would be really neat if there was an option to choose how the sprites and textures are upscaled. Right now it likes like bilinear or trilinear filtering, but in addition to that scalers like hq4x, lq4x, super eagle, super 2xSaI, and scale4x (at least most of which are open source and readily available) could also be chosen to give the game a different look (with the user of course deciding which looks best). Of course this isn't something to worry about until after full DF functionality, but I think having that feature could really push the look of DarkXL beyond similar engines like jDoom (if jDoom can do that I don't know how to select it).



This is already planned. I have my own idea of how to generate isocurves from alpha images to use on sprites using a technique similar to what I've used to generate smooth 3D isosurfaces in the past where the input data is binary. I may be able to apply the same technique to color data and if not then I will augment the other system with filters like those that you've mentioned. The "magnification" filter will be used to generate larger images (which may then be compressed) so even low end hardware can benefit and have 512x512 textures where they used to be 64x64 for example Smile Since all this will be done on the fly, the users and modders won't have to worry about it.

I'm not sure when this will happen though. And it will all be optional, from things like filters used to the amount of magnification (if any) and so on.

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DarkXL....http://darkxl.wordpress.com

sweatervest
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Joined: 22 Apr 2008

PostPosted: May 02, 2008 18:59    Post subject: Re: Feature Request: Fancy Texture Scaling View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

lucius wrote:
This is already planned. I have my own idea of how to generate isocurves from alpha images to use on sprites using a technique similar to what I've used to generate smooth 3D isosurfaces in the past where the input data is binary. I may be able to apply the same technique to color data and if not then I will augment the other system with filters like those that you've mentioned. The "magnification" filter will be used to generate larger images (which may then be compressed) so even low end hardware can benefit and have 512x512 textures where they used to be 64x64 for example Smile Since all this will be done on the fly, the users and modders won't have to worry about it.

I'm not sure when this will happen though. And it will all be optional, from things like filters used to the amount of magnification (if any) and so on.



Oh damn that sounds awesome. I can't wait to see it in action!

Fenwar
Admiral Ackbar
Admiral Ackbar

Joined: 15 Sep 2003

PostPosted: May 03, 2008 07:25    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Would this be a potential application for the hires textures already produced by the DF mod for JA team?

lucius
DarkXL Developer
DarkXL Developer

Joined: 17 Feb 2008

PostPosted: May 03, 2008 07:50    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

Hi-res textures will certainly be supported but by default DarkXL will use the Dark Forces data; although there will be options to have higher quality upscaling, kind of like the console emulators. This allows all the textures to be rendered at the same quality, even those that were never made in hi-res yet and custom textures from mods.

I looked at their textures, and while some are good I think others are missing a certain "character" of the originals - for lack of a better term - and I don't think I'd be happy with them as the default. But I will enable users to use them and other hi-res textures if they want Smile And I think that user made hi-res resource packs are a good idea eventually.

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DarkXL....http://darkxl.wordpress.com

sweatervest
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Joined: 22 Apr 2008

PostPosted: May 03, 2008 17:38    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

lucius wrote:
Hi-res textures will certainly be supported but by default DarkXL will use the Dark Forces data; although there will be options to have higher quality upscaling, kind of like the console emulators. This allows all the textures to be rendered at the same quality, even those that were never made in hi-res yet and custom textures from mods.

I looked at their textures, and while some are good I think others are missing a certain "character" of the originals - for lack of a better term - and I don't think I'd be happy with them as the default. But I will enable users to use them and other hi-res textures if they want Smile And I think that user made hi-res resource packs are a good idea eventually.



I agree with this. When I play jDoom I turn off all of the models and special effects and everything, because really I want to play the actual original Doom in Hi-Res with mouse looking. The models and particles and everything look really cool, but they don't look like Doom.

lucius
DarkXL Developer
DarkXL Developer

Joined: 17 Feb 2008

PostPosted: May 03, 2008 21:35    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

sweatervest wrote:

I agree with this. When I play jDoom I turn off all of the models and special effects and everything, because really I want to play the actual original Doom in Hi-Res with mouse looking. The models and particles and everything look really cool, but they don't look like Doom.


Just so you know I'd like to get some of those features too, but they will all be optional. This is why I (will) have a "Classic" mode, where all the new features are off by default (except those needed for gameplay used by mods - such as slopes) and then the "Extended" mode which will offer alot more high-end features but you can toggle them individually. I think some features won't take away from the look of the original game - but each person has their own opinion about this Smile

Then I'd like to setup mods so they can have their own "feature/compatibility profile" for what looks best. If you use the mod's profile, then you'll enable whatever features are needed for that mod to look good and play well. So if you have a mod that relies on dynamic lighting, for instance, then it'll be turned on when playing that mod and left at your preferred settings when playing the base game.

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DarkXL....http://darkxl.wordpress.com

sweatervest
Ree-Yees

Joined: 22 Apr 2008

PostPosted: May 04, 2008 18:59    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

lucius wrote:
Just so you know I'd like to get some of those features too, but they will all be optional. This is why I (will) have a "Classic" mode, where all the new features are off by default (except those needed for gameplay used by mods - such as slopes) and then the "Extended" mode which will offer alot more high-end features but you can toggle them individually. I think some features won't take away from the look of the original game - but each person has their own opinion about this Smile



Oh yeah I definitely think it would cool to have that stuff as options. I don't think there is ever such a thing as too many options when it comes to things like this.

The MAZZTer
Death Star
Death Star

Joined: 25 Sep 2003

PostPosted: May 05, 2008 04:40    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

I think there is. Here's a very good and appropriate guide to options:

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/uibook/chapters/fog0000000059.html

BTW, there is such a thing as too many options.

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klasodeth
Trandoshan

Joined: 03 Mar 2008

PostPosted: May 05, 2008 06:21    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

What was the problem with that Descent 2 remake? The main page of the website doesn't indicate anything about options at all, and I've never played that remake. Perhaps you could post an image or two illustrating what they did wrong?

The MAZZTer
Death Star
Death Star

Joined: 25 Sep 2003

PostPosted: May 06, 2008 01:49    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

Page after page after page of options, most of which are very confusing and most users aren't going to care about. The problem is he touts all these cool features but you have to go in to the options dialog and figure out how to turn them on before they work. And then there are a handful of tweaking options for each, and tweaking options that affect gameplay (Missle turn speed*: Normal, Default, Fast? I DON'T CARE, JUST MAKE IT LOOK COOL).

I'll post pictures later... it's really quite a sight.

* - Actual option.

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sweatervest
Ree-Yees

Joined: 22 Apr 2008

PostPosted: May 06, 2008 17:15    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

The_Mega_ZZTer wrote:
Page after page after page of options, most of which are very confusing and most users aren't going to care about. The problem is he touts all these cool features but you have to go in to the options dialog and figure out how to turn them on before they work. And then there are a handful of tweaking options for each, and tweaking options that affect gameplay (Missle turn speed*: Normal, Default, Fast? I DON'T CARE, JUST MAKE IT LOOK COOL).

I'll post pictures later... it's really quite a sight.

* - Actual option.



This is important I think, being more of the tweaking kind I always like a plethora of options, but others less interested in such a thing could very easily be confused by pages and pages of options. I think the best solution to that is to set the default values for those options to whatever they would be if they were not options, and then stick them in an "Advanced Options" menu or something for people who don't care to simply ignore that menu and people that would like to play around with rediculous parameters (like missle turn speed that's pretty funny) can still do so easily, with of course the handy "Reset to Defaults" button in case we need it.

After all, on a boring day, it's always fun to mess around with a game's parameters. I like to do that with UT, like put in a console command that makes the pulse rifle shoot redeemer missles. Quite an interesting experience (if it doesn't crash)!

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