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DarkXL Update 7 - Replanning and Upcoming Alpha Release.
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lucius
DarkXL Developer
DarkXL Developer

Joined: 17 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Jun 01, 2008 20:57    Post subject: DarkXL Update 7 - Replanning and Upcoming Alpha Release. View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

I've decided to change the contents of Build 8 and thus the order of implementation somewhat. Build 8 will now be retitled as the DarkXL Alpha (rather then Alpha Demo) and will feature not just the promised features (AI) but also several others that will help make it seem much more like Dark Forces as a whole:

*More complete AI, including Droids.
*The first 3 levels will be playable! Secret Base, Talay and Anoat City (Sewers).
*In game UI and menus.
*Agent creation and saving. This means you'll progress through the levels and keep inventory/health (where appropriate) between levels.
*Difficulty levels.
*Front-end and in game settings.
*Dark Forces fonts.
*Possibly cutscenes and credits.

To this end, Talay is nearly complete - here are some shots of it in action:

Sky rendering fixed and the scrolling water works correctly.


The power generator works.

Using a rotating bridge.

Areas that are well lit now that the power is on. These were dark before (see my original Talay screenshots).

Nearing the end now.


And a little work on the Sewers...


Any comments or questions?

_________________
DarkXL....http://darkxl.wordpress.com

sheepandshepherd
Trandoshan

Joined: 01 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Jun 01, 2008 21:12    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

I like the new plan Smile I mean, AI is important, but I've been hoping to see something new besides that. So what exactly do you mean with the Frontend? The normal DF frontend, or the planned DarkXL frontend that includes non-DF options and such?
Random question: do generators work yet? I mean, object generators, not hydroelectric power generators Laughing I don't think there are any in SECBASE, but there may be in TALAY . . .

Burning Gundam
Kell Dragon

Joined: 28 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Jun 01, 2008 21:26    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

Hooray!!!! Very Happy

**Twiddles thumbs with anticipation**

Oh. I do have a question. When do you think music will be implemented?

_________________
I don't think outside the box... I customize it.

lucius
DarkXL Developer
DarkXL Developer

Joined: 17 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Jun 01, 2008 21:44    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

sheepandshepherd wrote:
I like the new plan Smile I mean, AI is important, but I've been hoping to see something new besides that. So what exactly do you mean with the Frontend? The normal DF frontend, or the planned DarkXL frontend that includes non-DF options and such?
Random question: do generators work yet? I mean, object generators, not hydroelectric power generators Laughing I don't think there are any in SECBASE, but there may be in TALAY . . .


There are lots of generators in Talay. They will be implemented for this build - actually its one of my next tasks so I can call Talay "complete."

The front-end I'm talking about is a DarkXL front end where DarkXL specific features/settings are dealt with, such as Dark Forces data directory, graphical settings, mouse settings, etc. But the front end will be accessible in game (and will be rendered by the game engine) thus you can access it during the game and change options.

_________________
DarkXL....http://darkxl.wordpress.com

lucius
DarkXL Developer
DarkXL Developer

Joined: 17 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Jun 01, 2008 21:44    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

Burning Gundam wrote:
Hooray!!!! Very Happy

**Twiddles thumbs with anticipation**

Oh. I do have a question. When do you think music will be implemented?


Most likely the build after this one.

_________________
DarkXL....http://darkxl.wordpress.com

sheepandshepherd
Trandoshan

Joined: 01 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Jun 01, 2008 21:58    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Oooh, a DarkXL frontend!Surprised I wonder what it's gonna look like . . . in the final product, of course . . .
Until then, lemme just get back to work on my level Smile

Weregoose
Gamorrean

Joined: 05 May 2008

PostPosted: Jun 01, 2008 22:13    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Well, my heart's beating more rapidly now. Cool

BlazingPhoenix
Ree-Yees

Joined: 22 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Jun 02, 2008 01:45    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

Epic update. :O

Burning Gundam
Kell Dragon

Joined: 28 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Jun 02, 2008 01:58    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

I must say, the amount of time it's taking to produce a project like this is frighteningly fast (in a good way). Kinda makes me believe we might even have a semi-finished product by even the end of the year!

_________________
I don't think outside the box... I customize it.

sweatervest
Ree-Yees

Joined: 22 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Jun 02, 2008 02:16    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Burning Gundam wrote:
I must say, the amount of time it's taking to produce a project like this is frighteningly fast (in a good way). Kinda makes me believe we might even have a semi-finished product by even the end of the year!



Don't jinx it!

I agree though, progress has been lightning fast on this. You have made many very happy nerds, lucius!

Burning Gundam
Kell Dragon

Joined: 28 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Jun 02, 2008 02:33    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

**Knocks on wood very hard**

**Gets bloody knuckles from doing it**

That outta remove the jinx... oww... my hand....

_________________
I don't think outside the box... I customize it.

sweatervest
Ree-Yees

Joined: 22 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Jun 02, 2008 05:43    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Burning Gundam wrote:
**Knocks on wood very hard**

**Gets bloody knuckles from doing it**

That outta remove the jinx... oww... my hand....



I fired up DarkXL and punched something that kind of looked like wood over and over. That should do it.

sheepandshepherd
Trandoshan

Joined: 01 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Jun 02, 2008 05:47    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

My brother's dog rammed his head against a wooden door trying to get outside, does that count Laughing

bak1977
Dianoga

Joined: 28 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Jun 02, 2008 09:08    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

new contend - sounds very good

Burning Gundam
Kell Dragon

Joined: 28 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Jun 02, 2008 09:18    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

sweatervest wrote:
Burning Gundam wrote:
**Knocks on wood very hard**

**Gets bloody knuckles from doing it**

That outta remove the jinx... oww... my hand....



I fired up DarkXL and punched something that kind of looked like wood over and over. That should do it.


No pain no gain Wink

_________________
I don't think outside the box... I customize it.

Pumpkinetics
Ree-Yees

Joined: 16 Oct 2007

PostPosted: Jun 02, 2008 10:30    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

What if we throw thermal detonators at it close range?

_________________
"So, how goes (X) ?"

"WORKIN' ON IT! I SWEAR!"

sheepandshepherd
Trandoshan

Joined: 01 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Jun 02, 2008 16:54    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

I'm about to go play Outlaws on Ugly and get into the super secret toilet area and punch the aliens and their wooden UFO Laughing

sweatervest
Ree-Yees

Joined: 22 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Jun 02, 2008 17:07    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

I drove my car into the side of a barn. Now if that isn't breaking a jinx I don't know what is.

sheepandshepherd
Trandoshan

Joined: 01 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Jun 02, 2008 17:16    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

sweatervest wrote:
I drove my car into the side of a barn. Now if that isn't breaking a jinx I don't know what is.


Was the barn made of wood? Did you have a black cat in the barn?

Ryuichi91
Ree-Yees

Joined: 06 Aug 2007

PostPosted: Jun 02, 2008 23:31    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

I never heard of any barns made up of anything but wood lol. Black cat is probably dead after the crash due to being ran over or falling debris. Anyway lucius I'm liking the screenshots can't wait to get my hands on the next build Very Happy

sweatervest
Ree-Yees

Joined: 22 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Jun 03, 2008 07:01    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Yes back on the topic of, well, something: I'm very excited to see Talay and the Sewers in action, and I imagine that the addition of more levels will become easier and easier, as more and more logic will be already implemented. To think that a mere three months ago I swore I was doomed to fight dark troopers in 320x240.

Here's a quick question: If I am not mistaken, surround sound was disabled back in build 2 or 3 or something, to assist in fixing the Realtek problems. Any plans on when to re-enable this option? I remember it worked fine on my system (with an X-Fi) and definitely added a lot to the depth of the experience. Also, on a similar topic, are the any plans for implementing some sort of EAX like system, where big open rooms have echo and stuff like that? I know EAX has been dropped with Vista so I don't know what the replacement would be, or if one is even available.

lucius
DarkXL Developer
DarkXL Developer

Joined: 17 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Jun 03, 2008 07:09    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

sweatervest wrote:
Yes back on the topic of, well, something: I'm very excited to see Talay and the Sewers in action, and I imagine that the addition of more levels will become easier and easier, as more and more logic will be already implemented. To think that a mere three months ago I swore I was doomed to fight dark troopers in 320x240.

Here's a quick question: If I am not mistaken, surround sound was disabled back in build 2 or 3 or something, to assist in fixing the Realtek problems. Any plans on when to re-enable this option? I remember it worked fine on my system (with an X-Fi) and definitely added a lot to the depth of the experience. Also, on a similar topic, are the any plans for implementing some sort of EAX like system, where big open rooms have echo and stuff like that? I know EAX has been dropped with Vista so I don't know what the replacement would be, or if one is even available.


Eventually I'll add a "hardware" sound option which will act like the original implementation. It'll still default to "software" - what its doing now - because hardware support seems to be hit or miss right now. As for EAX, I have no plans to implement it right now but maybe down the road.

_________________
DarkXL....http://darkxl.wordpress.com

Jon`C
Ree-Yees

Joined: 16 May 2008

PostPosted: Jun 03, 2008 17:08    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

The future of hardware-accelerated sound is OpenAL. If you have a Creative card with relatively recent drivers you already have an accelerated ICD, and you can download a program from Creative called ALchemy that intercepts DirectSound calls and translates them to OpenAL. Considering the fact that almost all soundcards in use today are AC97 or Azalia deals that do software mixing, and the rest are all Creative cards with hardware OpenAL drivers, I'd say what you're using right now is the best possible option.

The cool parts of EAX are done entirely in software through a strictly closed-source library that Creative does not provide an SDK for unless you're a triple-A big budget development house.

lucius
DarkXL Developer
DarkXL Developer

Joined: 17 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Jun 03, 2008 20:30    Post subject: New Build 8 Feature: Early user/mod level support... View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

After showing Burning Gundam's Force Crystal level rendered in DarkXL in the Showcase forum, http://df-21.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php_t=1240, Marley asked if I would release a build that supports user levels. I obviously have the support now so there's no technical reason not to. However I had some concerns - there will be some caveats.

So I think I'll support the feature given these issues:

1. No support yet until near the end of alpha or beginning of beta. The level may not load yet or may even crash. Even if it does load, some things may work incorrectly.

2. No bugs specific to user levels will be addressed unless they also effect a currently supported level. Please don't bring up the bugs in the release or standard bug threads, although you can make your own threads - but again they will most likely not be addressed specifically.

3. This won't change the release structure for regular levels, they will still be made available as they become somewhat complete and completable.

In addition to the bugs I was also concerned with user perception since finding a bunch of incomplete and/or buggy levels tends to make a project feel very buggy and unpolished. It may even discourage people, first impressions are often important. However since this is something that isn't there by default, the user has to "opt-in" by using the command line, I think this is less of an issue than with the regular levels. I am also concerned about the bug reports but I'll just have to stick with #1 and #2.

Any questions, comments or concerns? Do you think this is a good idea?

_________________
DarkXL....http://darkxl.wordpress.com

sheepandshepherd
Trandoshan

Joined: 01 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Jun 03, 2008 20:47    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

I think it's a good idea, as long as you make it clear that it's NOT YET SUPPORTED and we SHOULD NOT post bug reports using the feature Smile
Forcing us to use a command line parameter is a good way of making this point. That gives it the hacking feel to show people that it's not how DarkXL is meant to run (yet), which should also solve the buggy first impressions problem.

klasodeth
Trandoshan

Joined: 03 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Jun 04, 2008 00:08    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

When the user loads a mod, how about a message that pops up briefly that states that mod support is incomplete that there will likely be bugs and/or crashes? You could throw whatever disclaimers in there so that you don't have to rely on people glazing over a disclaimer buried here at the forum.

sheepandshepherd
Trandoshan

Joined: 01 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Jun 04, 2008 00:59    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

klasodeth wrote:
When the user loads a mod, how about a message that pops up briefly that states that mod support is incomplete that there will likely be bugs and/or crashes? You could throw whatever disclaimers in there so that you don't have to rely on people glazing over a disclaimer buried here at the forum.


That's a good idea. Maybe a one-time agreement that enables loading custom levels, that way we won't have to see it every time it pops up.

sweatervest
Ree-Yees

Joined: 22 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Jun 04, 2008 23:13    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

I think making user levels available is a good idea just because it gives those interested the option to explore the program more thoroughly. We can refrain from saturating the threads with bug reports but still have more of a feel for what DarkXL does correctly and what it does not, so that when the time finally does come to do reports, some of us will have already messed around with other levels and have a good idea of what functions. It may even help to solve bugs that are in supported levels, like say when Talay becomes supported if something doesn't work, and then someone else notices that a similar problem is in another level, that may help determine what is causing that bug.

In that respect I also think later levels from the original game should be accessible via command line, partly for the reasons listed above, but mostly because I really want to see those levels in DarkXL, buggy and barely functioning or not! Only when they become supported should they appear in the menu though.

Emon
Ree-Yees

Joined: 10 Aug 2007

PostPosted: Jun 05, 2008 01:57    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Jon`C wrote:
The future of hardware-accelerated sound is OpenAL.


But is the future hardware-accelerated at all? According to the FMOD developers, FMOD's mixing is significantly faster with software than hardware, and offers more features. And considering how well-written FMOD is, I doubt it's an implementation issue.

Jon`C
Ree-Yees

Joined: 16 May 2008

PostPosted: Jun 05, 2008 06:16    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Emon wrote:
But is the future hardware-accelerated at all? According to the FMOD developers, FMOD's mixing is significantly faster with software than hardware, and offers more features. And considering how well-written FMOD is, I doubt it's an implementation issue.

I think it's mainly an issue with the hardware-accelerated audio market being owned wholly by a single company full of stupids who spent 5 years telling people that "PCI Express is hard, guys!" when the first-generation cheapo Azalia/Intel HD Audio integrated sound chips could do it just fine.

It would be obscenely cheap to stick enough processing power on a card to pull off amazing audio effects. But pfft. Who wants realistic sound propagation when you can have a high pass filter on all of your MP3z instead? And why would you want accurate sound reflection when you can just crank the reverb delay? Doing the intelligent thing like actually using the 64 MB of "X-RAM" they put on every X-Fi or using the 200 GFLOP/s vector processor they could buy for a dollar apiece just isn't xtreme enough for fatal1ty to endorse, I guess.

Eh. I think I got off track. The short answer, Emon: no.

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