DF-21 Forums

[Taton]

Considering that we all hang out on a website dedicated to a game that came more than a decade ago, it can probably be agreed upon that we like Dark Forces. The big question is Why?

Do you love it because you like Star Wars? Is it great because you can edit it? Are you a person that loves raycasting engines? Do you think Dark Forces is the greatest contribution to culture in the 20th Century?

I love Dark Forces for all these reason (except for the culture bit).

Why do you love Dark Forces?

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"A fight should be clean and elegant, without waste"
-Asuka Langley Sohryu, Evangelion

[Weregoose]

Honest-to-goodness replay value?

[The MAZZTer]

I love Star Wars, DF is fun to play, it has a good balance of being easy to edit, still being able to make cool stuff, having a scripting language that can be used to do stuff even though it's not as flexible as I would like.

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http://www.mzzt.net/ | I am a respectable admin with a respectable sig.

[Burning Gundam]

I've had many fond memories playing DF when I was younger and loved every bit of it. Back then I was a big Star Wars nut (not so much anymore)I wanted and played almost every game related to the movies.

Dark Forces to me however was special. The graphics at the time were awesome and helped to immerse the experience (and still does for me to this day). I loved the story and the gameplay, everything about it just worked.

Then when I learned you could make your own levels, given you had knowledge to do it, my interest rekindled. I didn't download any custom levels for a long time until a few years back but to this day I regret not doing it sooner. The first level I played was TIE Defender Base and was absolutely blown away by what was possible in a DF level.

I could go on, but that is pretty much the gist of it.

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I don't think outside the box... I customize it.

[Sir Lemming]

It has a simple but effective storyline, a great main character, cool cutscenes & music, and probably most importantly, the most cerebral and varied gameplay of any first-person shooter out there at the time. Ultimately what still makes the game great is the sense of adventure you get while playing it. You can't replace that, even with Half-Life, which I would consider to be the next game to excel at this type of gameplay (besides Jedi Knight). It also has some of the most memorable levels ever in an FPS, although that's probably partially due to the lack of mid-mission saves, which caused a lot of do-overs.

Even though Jedi Knight is better in many respects, the wussified Kyle Katarn and somewhat more generic storyline still make me prefer DF in some ways. (Plus, I prefer the drawn cutscenes to the cheesy FMVs, I prefer the original music to the film score rips, and I guess at the time sprites were capable of having more personality than 3D models were.)

[Marley]

Nail/Head

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*ZaP*

[Magic_Al]

I agree with all of the above. What happened in the DF/JK series reflects industry trends (there was a whole lot of questionable live-action video in the late 90s) and the games were at their best when LucasArts was innovating rather than following.

The greatest thing about DF is the expanded universe of add-on levels that live up to and surpass the quality of the original game. Games today are such big productions user mods can't offer nearly as much expansion in relative terms. Games today are sold partly on how many "hours of content" they have. It would be interesting to add up everything made for DF in those terms.

DF add-ons were also great Star Wars fan-fiction during the exciting post-Zahn, pre-SE wave of Star Wars "coming back". Before fan films like Troops hit the scene, DF and the exciting new World Wide Web combined to be one of the first forums for creating, collaborating on, and sharing fully-produced audiovisual and interactive fan fiction of any kind.

The flexibility of DF's engine combined with the limitation of no multiplayer forced level authors to explore the possibilities of FPS storytelling rather than just decorating one shooting gallery after another. The only FPS since Dark Forces that I really loved as much was Deus Ex because it was also about pushing the first-person experience forward (and like DF it was so good it still has modders working on some major projects). Quakes and Dooms were just technology demos as far I cared. Halo is repetitive (never finished Halo 2).

Today, third-person seems to be the preferred way to experience these kinds of stories, but good first-person has a certain immersive quality, where you can be disoriented by space and seriously startled by what's around the corner.

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----- MagicAl`s DARK FORCES Niche -----
http://homepage.mac.com/anewmanagn/magic_al/

Armed only with a blaster pistol and an intimate knowledge of
Imperial methods, MagicAl prepares to go to lunch....

[Burning Gundam]

I've wasted hours of my life playing add-on missions for DF....

...wasted seems to harsh of a word for that though, at least I had fun.

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I don't think outside the box... I customize it.

[sheepandshepherd]

I honestly never liked third-person shooter games. The third-person lightsaber combat in JA was satisfying, but other than that, first-person is just better in my opinion. Third-person is better used in games like KOTOR, where aiming and targeting isn't necessary.

One game that really demonstrated the power of the first-person point of view was FarCry: Instincts. Even the "cutscenes" were in first-person. It really made you feel like you were the game's protagonist and avoided revealing things to the player that the protagonist couldn't have possibly known.

The main reason JK's cutscenes disappointed me was because they completely interrupted the flow of the game. They made me feel like I was in a completely different universe than the actual game for a few seconds at a time . . . cutscenes shouldn't separate the player from the action and immersion of the game . . .

I gotta disagree with Magic_Al about Halo though . . . I thought Halo 1 had a very immersive storyline. Halo 2 did kinda seem more "blunt" . . . and Halo 3 barely had a storyline at all . . . but I didn't have a problem with Halo 1 . . .

[Magic_Al]

[sheepandshepherd]

True, Microsoft sucks. Halo's inventory system was very . . . scrappy . . . and now that I think about it, the levels do have very little replay value. I just wish the excellent overall storyline would have been put into a more unique game engine. But yeah, seeing as I still play Dark Forces and haven't played Halo in more than a year, I agree that it is too overrated. Especially since decent modding in the PC version is close to impossible, and what little you can do is limited to multiplayer "shooting galleries" and pointless hex editing.

[Burning Gundam]

While I do understand why people think that Halo is over-rated, one could make the argument that most FPS get kind of repetitive. I think the reason DF was so memorable is because while the gameplay was the same, it took me to different places. Goldeneye 64 did roughly the same thing in which the atmosphere changes dramatically from level to level. Halo didn't really have much of a choice there because it was constrained to its own plot (you find a big ring thingy and you gots to blow it upz), it didn't really give it much room to expand. And while I did enjoy Halo very much, the only reason it was as popular as it was was because of the multiplayer.

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I don't think outside the box... I customize it.

[sheepandshepherd]

Umm, question, do you know what the Flood is? In Halo? I know a lot of people get bored of the first half of the game and quit playing before they get to that part . . .

[Burning Gundam]

To whom are you addressing?

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I don't think outside the box... I customize it.

[sheepandshepherd]

You, Burning Gundam . . . I'm just wondering, cause you said

[Taton]

Even though we've strayed off topic, I want to chime in on the Halo thing.

I think Halo has a brilliant story with memorable characters. The gameplay was quick and challenging. It gave the player options on how to approach different situations. I believe the only good criticism of it is its repetitve architecture. I hated the Library level so much...

I think it was a great game that takes alot of flack due to its popularity.

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"A fight should be clean and elegant, without waste"
-Asuka Langley Sohryu, Evangelion

[Magic_Al]

[Burning Gundam]

I have beaten all 3 on legendary, Sheepandshepherd.

What I meant by what I said was that it doesn't give it's own story room for much expansion beyond its own plot, unlike Star Wars which allows for a bit more flexibility.

I'm not saying I didn't like it, as I said before I really did like the series. I was stating that the reason that it may not have been as popular as it was if not for the multiplayer. Almost everyone I've talked to who has played halo has barely played the campaign but plays the multiplayer almost religiously.

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I don't think outside the box... I customize it.

[wangho]

I love the fantastic midi music mixed with the sound effects and gameplay. THe dates graphics makes it a more surreal experience. Plus, I love the mid-late nineties and all of the nostalgia. The internet was just coming around at that time and Beavis and Butthead was always on the tv. Good times

[Burning Gundam]

The late 90's was one of my favorite periods in gaming. Graphics and gameplay seem to be the only thing that seem to make or break a game these days. I enjoy a game with a good story, great gameplay, great replayability, and pleasing graphics. Dark Forces along with the ability to (somewhat) quickly make levels has all of these qualities. I would say the same for Duke Nukem, but Dark Forces was always my favorite if I were ever to compare the two.

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I don't think outside the box... I customize it.