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DarkXL Update - Final Portal Solution and Upcoming New Build
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klasodeth
Trandoshan

Joined: 03 Mar 2008
PostPosted: Oct 25, 2008 18:31    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
lucius wrote:
Magic_Al wrote:
Coincidentally, the second-to-last screenshot in this batch is almost identical to the second-to-last screenshot in the batch released today by the Dark Forces Mod. http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php_t=193270...


Pure coincidence I assure you...


How can you be so sure? Your shots came out first, so you can't be sure of their motivations. Razz

sheepandshepherd
Trandoshan

Joined: 01 Apr 2008
PostPosted: Oct 25, 2008 18:57    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
klasodeth wrote:
How can you be so sure? Your shots came out first, so you can't be sure of their motivations. Razz


CONSPIRACY!!!!!!!

jk haha Razz
I wasn't aware that anyone was still working on the Dark Forces Mod. Unfortunately, I don't have a computer capable of running JA right now, so I'd have to wait it off anyway Sad
Executor was never really one of my favorite levels, so I never spent enough time on it to notice the stitching horrors. I have however noticed them in places like Secbase's DS Plans room. Though, if we think about it, it's likely that the DF team didn't have something like WDFUSE -- they probably coded all of the original 14 levels manually, since it's all pure text anyway.

klasodeth
Trandoshan

Joined: 03 Mar 2008
PostPosted: Oct 25, 2008 23:18    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
I thought I recalled reading that they used AutoCAD or some similar program for the design.

Edited to add: In another thread lucius confirms that AutoCAD was used by LucasArts for making Dark Forces levels.


Last edited by klasodeth on Oct 26, 2008 20:35; edited 1 time in total

C. Zoui
Ree-Yees

Joined: 03 Aug 2008
PostPosted: Oct 26, 2008 17:46    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
I had no idea that DFmod had continued under a new team.

sheepandshepherd
Trandoshan

Joined: 01 Apr 2008
PostPosted: Oct 26, 2008 18:23    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
C. Zoui wrote:
I had no idea that DFmod had continued under a new team.


The original team left their unfinished work after level 6 open to the public to continue. Is there an organized team working on it now or is it just independent authors making single levels?

C. Zoui
Ree-Yees

Joined: 03 Aug 2008
PostPosted: Oct 26, 2008 19:13    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
*shrug*

Following Al's link can eventually bring you to the DFMod "Part 2" homepage. The oldest post on it speaks of a team, and there appears to be some coordination involved, but your guess is as good as mine.

Burning Gundam
Kell Dragon

Joined: 28 Sep 2003
PostPosted: Oct 26, 2008 19:40    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote
I think they left the source code behind for some other party to continue the project. I'd have helped out if I knew anything about modding JA, in fact I remember a while back downloading the tools to do it, but ultimately lost interest because I could never get it set up properly.

_________________
I don't think outside the box... I customize it.

lucius
DarkXL Developer
DarkXL Developer

Joined: 17 Feb 2008
PostPosted: Oct 28, 2008 01:24    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote
Last time I posted there were still some issues with the portal system. It turns out there were two sets of problems:
1) clipping issues - sometimes really small edges would be generated when clipping portals, which by itself isn't a problem. However when generating portal frustums, due to precision, the resulting plane (derived from the small edge) would be bogus causing unusual clipping issues. This has been fixed.

2) I have to carefully handle overlapping portals coming from the same sector. Basically when portals overlap relative to the camera, I have to treat the "blocking" (closer) portals as anti-portals. Basically I have to use these to cull and if necessary clip the "blocked" portals. I'm still working on this. Obviously LA completely avoided this problem in Jedi Knight by only allowing convex sectors - but this solution should work just as well without having to restrict geometry or generate an on demand BSP tree for each sector.

So the build is getting much closer. Smile

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sheepandshepherd
Trandoshan

Joined: 01 Apr 2008
PostPosted: Oct 28, 2008 01:46    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
lucius wrote:
2) I have to carefully handle overlapping portals coming from the same sector. Basically when portals overlap relative to the camera, I have to treat the "blocking" (closer) portals as anti-portals. Basically I have to use these to cull and if necessary clip the "blocked" portals. I'm still working on this. Obviously LA completely avoided this problem in Jedi Knight by only allowing convex sectors - but this solution should work just as well without having to restrict geometry or generate an on demand BSP tree for each sector.


Ohhh I hated that SOOOOO bad in JK, that's the main thing that made me give up on JK modding, aside from never figuring out how to adjoin or move vertexes in the editor Laughing

Good to know that you're smoothing out these problems, btw. We won't have any more problems with complex geometry Very Happy

Burning Gundam
Kell Dragon

Joined: 28 Sep 2003
PostPosted: Oct 28, 2008 04:02    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote
sheepandshepherd wrote:
lucius wrote:
2) I have to carefully handle overlapping portals coming from the same sector. Basically when portals overlap relative to the camera, I have to treat the "blocking" (closer) portals as anti-portals. Basically I have to use these to cull and if necessary clip the "blocked" portals. I'm still working on this. Obviously LA completely avoided this problem in Jedi Knight by only allowing convex sectors - but this solution should work just as well without having to restrict geometry or generate an on demand BSP tree for each sector.


Ohhh I hated that SOOOOO bad in JK, that's the main thing that made me give up on JK modding, aside from never figuring out how to adjoin or move vertexes in the editor Laughing

Good to know that you're smoothing out these problems, btw. We won't have any more problems with complex geometry Very Happy


That was something I was most afraid of, since level three of RoT will rely heavily on that principle. The idea is to create the illusion of an enormous tower without having to restrict the height to just 200DF units. It'll be a challenge of course, but I think it'll work out okay in the end.

_________________
I don't think outside the box... I customize it.

sheepandshepherd
Trandoshan

Joined: 01 Apr 2008
PostPosted: Oct 28, 2008 21:41    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Burning Gundam wrote:
That was something I was most afraid of, since level three of RoT will rely heavily on that principle. The idea is to create the illusion of an enormous tower without having to restrict the height to just 200DF units. It'll be a challenge of course, but I think it'll work out okay in the end.


Is it a technical limit that DarkXL will most likely lift?

Or is there a design reason for keeping it 200DFU? I don't know how well this works with 3D geometry, but you could try making a 3do that gradually gets smaller and smaller as it goes up. That should, if you have enough space, create the illusion of more height. It'd have to be very gradual though due to the heightened resolution in DarkXL.

Burning Gundam
Kell Dragon

Joined: 28 Sep 2003
PostPosted: Oct 29, 2008 00:24    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote
I said this before a while back, but I'm not using any extended features for this series of levels (simply because I like pushing limitations). Aside from the fact I've already worked on a lot of that design already and I don't want it to go to waste.

_________________
I don't think outside the box... I customize it.

lucius
DarkXL Developer
DarkXL Developer

Joined: 17 Feb 2008
PostPosted: Oct 29, 2008 00:32    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote
Burning Gundam wrote:
I said this before a while back, but I'm not using any extended features for this series of levels (simply because I like pushing limitations). Aside from the fact I've already worked on a lot of that design already and I don't want it to go to waste.


There really aren't any drastic height limitations in DarkXL. I mean you might start losing precision at a couple hundred thousand units... but nothing you're likely to hit in realistic designs.Smile

But I can respect the idea of wanting to honor DF constraints for now. The editor should still be very useful anyway. Very Happy

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Burning Gundam
Kell Dragon

Joined: 28 Sep 2003
PostPosted: Oct 29, 2008 02:09    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote
lucius wrote:
But I can respect the idea of wanting to honor DF constraints for now. The editor should still be very useful anyway. Very Happy


Yes, by leaps and bounds much more useful.

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I don't think outside the box... I customize it.

Marley
Gamorrean

Joined: 30 Sep 2003
PostPosted: Nov 13, 2008 12:11    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote
Any updates? I'm waiting excitedly for this release Very Happy

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Burning Gundam
Kell Dragon

Joined: 28 Sep 2003
PostPosted: Nov 13, 2008 17:01    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote
Yes indeed, this section of the forums seems to be a bit barren as of late.

_________________
I don't think outside the box... I customize it.

lucius
DarkXL Developer
DarkXL Developer

Joined: 17 Feb 2008
PostPosted: Nov 13, 2008 18:21    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote
There will be update soon, I just have to fix a few bugs and optimize a little and I can put out the build. In addition there will be some additional editor features put in as well since I wanted to give people access to the editor in the next build as well. It'll essentially be a "preview", since some features necessary to making levels will be missing - but should give you an idea of what its going to be like.

At some point I'd like someone to make a level where all the geometry is created with the DarkXL editor for testing purposes. If anyone wants to volunteer, let me know. Of course feedback from anyone will be valuable but having a full level being made should allow me to work out many of the kinks that whoever does it runs into.

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DarkXL....http://darkxl.wordpress.com

Burning Gundam
Kell Dragon

Joined: 28 Sep 2003
PostPosted: Nov 13, 2008 22:25    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote
I'll volunteer to do one. I need something to do while I think of ideas for what I'm currently working on. What are you looking for? Something basic to showcase, or an actual bonafide level? Maybe a Secbase ver. 3.0 or something?

_________________
I don't think outside the box... I customize it.

lucius
DarkXL Developer
DarkXL Developer

Joined: 17 Feb 2008
PostPosted: Nov 13, 2008 22:46    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote
Burning Gundam wrote:
I'll volunteer to do one. I need something to do while I think of ideas for what I'm currently working on. What are you looking for? Something basic to showcase, or an actual bonafide level? Maybe a Secbase ver. 3.0 or something?


Something architecturally representative of a real but smallish level. The idea is not so much to showcase but to test the tools in real use. I'll be doing this myself (I did volunteer to make a level for the group project after all) but I also want someone else to do the same thing. Its easy enough for me to use tools I made, I know how everything works. But how well does it work for someone else who's just learning the tools or thinks about mapping in a different way? Also just testing out some tools and making a complete level (even if just architecturally for now) are really quite different.

Anyway thanks for volunteering. Smile If you have any other questions, let me know.

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DarkXL....http://darkxl.wordpress.com

CarlosG
Ree-Yees

Joined: 25 Sep 2003
PostPosted: Nov 14, 2008 01:08    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
lucius wrote:
Burning Gundam wrote:
I'll volunteer to do one. I need something to do while I think of ideas for what I'm currently working on. What are you looking for? Something basic to showcase, or an actual bonafide level? Maybe a Secbase ver. 3.0 or something?


Something architecturally representative of a real but smallish level. The idea is not so much to showcase but to test the tools in real use. I'll be doing this myself (I did volunteer to make a level for the group project after all) but I also want someone else to do the same thing. Its easy enough for me to use tools I made, I know how everything works. But how well does it work for someone else who's just learning the tools or thinks about mapping in a different way? Also just testing out some tools and making a complete level (even if just architecturally for now) are really quite different.

Anyway thanks for volunteering. Smile If you have any other questions, let me know.



I may just try one for you. That is as long as I can find the dark cd I archived somewhere in a pile of cds far away. And of course get it to run on my quad core. I gave up gaming years ago and have yet to make a Dark level but I sure enjoyed having fun in Build back in the Duke 3d days.

lucius
DarkXL Developer
DarkXL Developer

Joined: 17 Feb 2008
PostPosted: Nov 14, 2008 01:18    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote
CarlosG wrote:
I may just try one for you. That is as long as I can find the dark cd I archived somewhere in a pile of cds far away. And of course get it to run on my quad core. I gave up gaming years ago and have yet to make a Dark level but I sure enjoyed having fun in Build back in the Duke 3d days.


The original Dark Forces does not actually need to run on your system to play DarkXL or use the DarkXL editor. You merely need the data on your system.

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DarkXL....http://darkxl.wordpress.com

CarlosG
Ree-Yees

Joined: 25 Sep 2003
PostPosted: Nov 14, 2008 01:47    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
lucius wrote:
CarlosG wrote:
I may just try one for you. That is as long as I can find the dark cd I archived somewhere in a pile of cds far away. And of course get it to run on my quad core. I gave up gaming years ago and have yet to make a Dark level but I sure enjoyed having fun in Build back in the Duke 3d days.


The original Dark Forces does not actually need to run on your system to play DarkXL or use the DarkXL editor. You merely need the data on your system.



I hear ya. I found the cd anyway. Pretty scratchy and O..L..D.. but the data is still good. I'll try it out for you. I am about as rookie of a map builder as it gets. I will make an excellent test case. hehe

The MAZZTer
Death Star
Death Star

Joined: 25 Sep 2003
PostPosted: Nov 15, 2008 21:18    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote
Burning Gundam wrote:
I'll volunteer to do one. I need something to do while I think of ideas for what I'm currently working on. What are you looking for? Something basic to showcase, or an actual bonafide level? Maybe a Secbase ver. 3.0 or something?



Oooh idea... Dark Forces Mod for Jedi Academy BACKPORT to DarkXL!

j/k... though an "enhanced" SP mission set that uses some of the tricks learned in the DF engine throughout the years as well as new DarkXL features would be awesome...

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