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Nottheking
Kell Dragon
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
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 Posted: Nov 26, 2003 18:51 Post subject: Warning: controversial topic! Instant flamewar! AVOID! |
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Tommorow is the United States national holiday of "Thanksgiving". most business (and all schools/universities) close this afternoon, not to open again until next week. I was wondering what other people's feelings were on this topic, and perhaps what those of us in the US would be doing...
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Wake up, George Lucas... The Matrix has you.. |
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Mattias Welander
Trandoshan
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Nov 26, 2003 19:01 Post subject: |
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I find it offensive to celebrate the start of the Indian genocide.
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Burning Gundam
Kell Dragon
Joined: 28 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Nov 26, 2003 21:31 Post subject: |
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How ironic for it to be a time of giving and togetherness when it was a darker puritan side of American history.
It may have been bad then, but I guess it's okay.
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I don't think outside the box... I customize it. |
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Tom Manning
Trandoshan
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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Kir Kanos
Gamorrean
Joined: 28 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Nov 26, 2003 23:03 Post subject: |
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Hi! We're the white people! Nice land you got here, we'll take it.
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"Curse you, Kanos!!! Why don't you just DIE?!" |
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Taton
Trandoshan
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Nov 27, 2003 00:38 Post subject: |
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But we didnt start taking there land until AFTER Thanksgiving. Right? We were friends with the Indians back then. Otherwise, we would have been wiped out.
And since our country is only 227 years old, we should be given leeway for making mistakes, considering that all the other countries in the world made the same mistakes at some time. We've just made less!! 
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"A fight should be clean and elegant, without waste"
-Asuka Langley Sohryu, Evangelion |
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Taylor
Gamorrean
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Nov 27, 2003 16:08 Post subject: |
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Taton wrote:
considering that all the other countries in the world made the same mistakes at some time. We've just made less!!
AMEN! Take that, you anti-Americans!
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The MAZZTer
Death Star
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Nov 27, 2003 17:19 Post subject: |
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Mattias Welander wrote:
I find it offensive to celebrate the start of the Indian genocide.
That's not what it was about 
*goes into Story-Tekller ZZTer mode*
So, we have Sqwuanto. He's a Native American, and he's with his tribe and all, and he gets kjidnapped and sold into slavery with some monks.
Tha monks treat him well and teach him english and about God and Jesus and all that.
Now, Squanto is set free eventually, and he learns the settlers killed off is tribw. He goes back to America and lives with another tribe, but eventually goes and lives by himself.
Now, the Pilgrims come and settle in the unoccupied parts of where Squanto had grown up. He hears of this, and helps the Pilgrims by teaching them what crops to graw and where, etc, and he is able to help them alot, seeing as how he can speak English.
The Pilgrims (who lost 1/2 of their numbers the previous winter), knew Squanto was a Godsend, and decided to hold Thanksgiving for all that God had given to them. They invited the local Native Americans, of course. 
There. This ends my little, slightly inaccurate history lesson.
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http://www.mzzt.net/ | I am a respectable admin with a respectable sig. |
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Llyren
Dark Trooper Phase 1
Joined: 11 Oct 2003
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| Posted: Nov 27, 2003 17:40 Post subject: |
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I agree with both sides. Thanksgiving is not a celebration of anything but the help the native people of the continent gave the white settlers. I do, however, find it ironic that we Americans still celebrate the holiday, after treating the Indians so awfully.
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DarthDoctor
Gamorrean
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Nov 27, 2003 21:24 Post subject: |
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"Post hoc, ergo, propter hoc."
Becareful about causality here.
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"At least, I think it was primitive DD that was the source of the bug" - Nottheking |
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Taylor
Gamorrean
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Nov 27, 2003 22:05 Post subject: |
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"Choice is an illusion created by those with power. There is only causality, cause and effect."
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Tom Manning
Trandoshan
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Nov 28, 2003 00:09 Post subject: |
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Thanksgiving is a time to thank God for his providence and blessings.
It started when the Pilgrims thanmed God for blessing their harvest and their frindship with the indians.
The Pilgrims were not the ones who killed the indians. That came later.
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Tom Manning
For all that you hold dear on this good Earth, I bid you, Stand, Men of the West!
Aragorn: Return of the King |
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darth bane
Gamorrean
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Nov 28, 2003 02:03 Post subject: |
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[quote="Taylor"]Taton wrote:
considering that all the other countries in the world made the same mistakes at some time. We've just made less!!
Actually, the US has made just as much as any other country, so don't feel special.
PS: I am not baised towards any countries, I hate all of you equally
_________________
"I want to change the world, but God won't give me the source code" -Adam |
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Tom Manning
Trandoshan
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Nov 28, 2003 02:05 Post subject: |
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Well, I guess it is just because you're one of those stupid Canadians.
_________________
Tom Manning
For all that you hold dear on this good Earth, I bid you, Stand, Men of the West!
Aragorn: Return of the King |
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Burning Gundam
Kell Dragon
Joined: 28 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Nov 28, 2003 05:49 Post subject: |
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But it can also go both ways
[quote=Robin Williams]The puritans come in going "Hello, we bring you guilt syphilus and alchohol."
And the indians go "Oh, and we have a gift for you. For us it is a medicinal and sacred herb. But for you, it will be an addictive constnigan (or something like that). Enjoy!"[/quote]
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I don't think outside the box... I customize it. |
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Taylor
Gamorrean
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Nov 28, 2003 16:17 Post subject: |
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"carcinogen" 
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AlexG
Dark Trooper Phase 1
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Nov 29, 2003 00:50 Post subject: |
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Mattias Welander wrote:
I find it offensive to celebrate the start of the Indian genocide.
THANKSGIVING
THANKS + GIVING = GIVING THANKS
This holiday is NOT the anniversary of the pilgrims landing in America and, eventualy, opressing the Indians. If it were, we would call it "Pilgrim Day" or "Holocaust Day" or maybe "Ha Ha You're Dead Day". But we do not. We DO sit with people we love and give thanks to God for all the blessings he has given us in the past year. It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the Pilgrims or the Indians or the Puritans or ANYONE, but US and GOD!
Why do you believe that just because the Pilgrims were the first to celebrate Thanksgiving that we still celebrate it to remember them? Do you think that Valentines day is to remember St. Valentine? NO! It's about love and cardboard hearts and chocolate. I honestly think that you picture Americans sitting around the table, with the turkey and the stuffing and the mashed potatoes, and saying, "Let us be joyful, for the nasty savage Indians are dead as so many doornails." Well, it's not that way. The holiday isn't about that nor will it ever (hopefully) be.
If you're going to get mad at people who post opinions without doing their research, then please respect US by knowing what a holiday is for before expressing your thoughts.
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This thread is going to die... isn't it? |
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darth bane
Gamorrean
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Nov 29, 2003 04:27 Post subject: |
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Alex is right
_________________
"I want to change the world, but God won't give me the source code" -Adam |
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Llyren
Dark Trooper Phase 1
Joined: 11 Oct 2003
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Tom Manning
Trandoshan
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Nov 29, 2003 18:50 Post subject: |
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I'm sorry, you really should get over that.
_________________
Tom Manning
For all that you hold dear on this good Earth, I bid you, Stand, Men of the West!
Aragorn: Return of the King |
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Taton
Trandoshan
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Nov 30, 2003 20:09 Post subject: |
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Well whatever floats your boat. BUT YOU MUST REPENT.
*Does best impression of the famous "In the Hands of an Angry God" Sermon*
O well...
_________________
"A fight should be clean and elegant, without waste"
-Asuka Langley Sohryu, Evangelion |
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japh
Gamorrean
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Nov 30, 2003 22:29 Post subject: |
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My religion is the best.
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Llyren
Dark Trooper Phase 1
Joined: 11 Oct 2003
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| Posted: Nov 30, 2003 22:29 Post subject: |
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 Ooh, good sermon! Frightening, though... "And it would be a wonder if some that are now present should not be in hell in a very short time, before this year is out; and it would be no wonder if some person that now sits here in some seat of this meeting-house, in health, and quiet and secure, should be there before to-morrow morning..."
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Barry Brien
Dark Trooper Phase 1
Joined: 26 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Dec 05, 2003 20:01 Post subject: |
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I met God once. He said "quiet, don't tell anybody I actually exist, I'm having too much fun"
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Nottheking
Kell Dragon
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Dec 08, 2003 18:40 Post subject: |
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Thanksgiving certainly had bloody origins, but then again, many things do. Of course, that doesn't really stop it from being an opportunity to stop and say thanks for what you have, be the recepient of the thanks God, Allah, your Parents, or mabye just Yourself .
_________________
Wake up, George Lucas... The Matrix has you.. |
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Darth Oosha
Trandoshan
Joined: 24 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Dec 08, 2003 19:24 Post subject: Canada SUCKS! *NM* |
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[quote="Tom Manning"]Well, I guess it is just because you're one of those stupid Canadians. :)[/quote]
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Nottheking
Kell Dragon
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Dec 08, 2003 20:25 Post subject: Re: Canada SUCKS! *NM* |
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Darth Oosha wrote:
Well, I guess it is just because you're one of those stupid Canadians.
If you're talking to me, I'm from the USA, as evidenced by the "location" listed in my user info.
_________________
Wake up, George Lucas... The Matrix has you.. |
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Taylor
Gamorrean
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Dec 09, 2003 02:59 Post subject: |
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I think he was talking to darth bane.
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JJ
Ree-Yees
Joined: 28 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Dec 10, 2003 08:31 Post subject: |
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I find it odd how many people want to take a holiday intended in part to celebrate a major contribution by Native Americans to the national heritage and deny us the right to celebrate that contribution on the grounds that we treated them so crapy. In addition to Swedish and other European heritage I also have some Native American ancestry and I fail to see why in light of past bad treatment we should be forced to continually ignor the valuable contributions that people have made to our heritage. It's a bit like saying because we treated you like crap before, now we must continue to treat you that way.
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Lionel Fouillen
Gamorrean
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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