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Ouch! DF won't install on my WinXP!
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Nottheking
Kell Dragon

Joined: 29 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Dec 18, 2003 05:56    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Oddly enough, despite the fact that my hearing is FAR better than my vision, I tolerate decreases in audio quality far more than decreases in resolution... I certainly wish I could play DF at higher resolutions... (Hint, hint, Mattias!)

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Mattias Welander
Trandoshan

Joined: 27 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Dec 18, 2003 12:11    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

Nottheking wrote:
Oddly enough, despite the fact that my hearing is FAR better than my vision, I tolerate decreases in audio quality far more than decreases in resolution...



That's a well known situation in cognitive science. Though the full answer is quite complex, you have already provided part of it - your hearing has far better resolution than your vision.

Brad Oliver
Ree-Yees

Joined: 30 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Dec 20, 2003 07:08    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Mattias Welander wrote:
True... and if you have a good General MIDI emulator on a PC, the music will sound a lot better there than on the Mac, too.



Is it mainly the instrument samples themselves that are the problem with the Mac GMID playback? I've never done comparison listening with custom GMID files on the Mac and PC with Dark Forces.

Mattias Welander
Trandoshan

Joined: 27 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Dec 20, 2003 11:42    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

Yes, that is correct. At the time when I bothered with music in DF, I played it through a General MIDI emulator with a very good 50 MB soundfont. I don't know how large soundfont (if any at all) the Mac use, and I do realize it's not just the size of the font but the quality of it that matters... but comparing the MIDI output from DF on my Mac with DF on my PC, the quality is significantly in favor of the PC.

Brad Oliver
Ree-Yees

Joined: 30 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Dec 20, 2003 20:14    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Mattias Welander wrote:
Yes, that is correct. At the time when I bothered with music in DF, I played it through a General MIDI emulator with a very good 50 MB soundfont. I don't know how large soundfont (if any at all) the Mac use, and I do realize it's not just the size of the font but the quality of it that matters... but comparing the MIDI output from DF on my Mac with DF on my PC, the quality is significantly in favor of the PC.



Ah, I see. Dark Forces Mac uses a special QT GMIDI instrument sample file (it's the "Dark Forces Instruments" file) presumably to overcome some shortcoming in QuickTime's instruments. However, between the initial release of DF back in the early System 7 days and now, the classic QT instrument file has been improved in quality by quite a lot. However, I don't believe there's a way to hack DF to use the QT-provided instrument set instead of its custom one.

Matt H
Dark Trooper Phase 1

Joined: 24 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Dec 21, 2003 21:52    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

I wonder if that has anything to do with the problems the Macintosh has with custom made gmids... like maybe they're not calling the right instrument files.

Brad Oliver
Ree-Yees

Joined: 30 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Dec 24, 2003 06:30    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Matt H wrote:
I wonder if that has anything to do with the problems the Macintosh has with custom made gmids... like maybe they're not calling the right instrument files.



I'd be willing to put money on it.

Mattias Welander
Trandoshan

Joined: 27 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Dec 24, 2003 12:11    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

Hm. I do know the IMuse MIDI system does not use the standard General MIDI instrument palette even when playing on a General MIDI device. It does some kind of non-standard mapping of the instruments. Perhaps that's part of the problem.

Come to think of it - exactly how does the custom GMID problem on Macs show itself? I never run custom levels so I've never encountered it, and I've only heard talk about the "custom GMID problem" but never a description of the symptoms.

Matt H
Dark Trooper Phase 1

Joined: 24 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Dec 24, 2003 12:51    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

It's been a while for me, and Patrick or some other Mac user can correct me, but I think it mostly seems like they just don't play, as in you hear no sound. However, in a few rare cases (like Beyond Glory 2, I think) you can partially hear the parts of the music, but only as percussion. That indicates to me that the commands to play the music are being sent, just not getting to the right place.

I've been wanting to figure this one out for years...

Mattias Welander
Trandoshan

Joined: 27 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Dec 24, 2003 13:18    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

What about edited versions of the original GMIDs?

Matt H
Dark Trooper Phase 1

Joined: 24 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Dec 24, 2003 13:41    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

I'm sorry.... I'm not sure.

eargosedown
Gamorrean

Joined: 12 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Mar 08, 2004 22:53    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

im running win xp and if you open setup and then let it sit for a bit, it will work.
i had the same problem,
the only thing is you cant opan it with cammand prompt.

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