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Mattias Welander
Trandoshan
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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 Posted: Dec 18, 2003 16:20 Post subject: |
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He proposed that people should not be allowed to listen to my opinions, and motivated it with the fact that I'm a Christian. That puts him beneath my contempt.
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DarthDoctor
Gamorrean
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Dec 18, 2003 16:26 Post subject: |
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Than be better than him, I dare you:
Don't insult him.
You don't want to sink even close to his level.
_________________
"At least, I think it was primitive DD that was the source of the bug" - Nottheking |
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Mattias Welander
Trandoshan
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Dec 18, 2003 16:30 Post subject: |
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You're correct. I retract my designation of him as a cockroach. I do still find him beneath my contempt.
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Taton
Trandoshan
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
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Mattias Welander
Trandoshan
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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Tom Manning
Trandoshan
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Dec 18, 2003 23:47 Post subject: |
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In America, Radical does not neccerily mean a Christian, in GADs case I think he ment you are more of a radical liberal
I know you disagree with that, but it sounds like you are pro UN, pro one world governement, which puts you more in line with the liberals.
Also, I think that GAD is a christian, and I know you have said you are, I don't think saying GAD is below you is very christlike.
_________________
Tom Manning
For all that you hold dear on this good Earth, I bid you, Stand, Men of the West!
Aragorn: Return of the King |
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Mattias Welander
Trandoshan
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Dec 18, 2003 23:59 Post subject: |
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I'm sorry, but GAdRS did not just call me radical in general. And I do not object to being called a radical Christian.
What he did do, however, was to explicitly refer to my own statemnt, that I as a Christian believe certain things that are illegal to say in Sweden, and that people, because of this, should not listen to me.
I can survive if people hate me in general, as long as I know I'm right. But I do not, and I repeat, I do not accept when people harass me because of my faith. Not a day goes by when TV, newspaper, politicians or people in general violate my human rights for the single reason that I am a Christian - but in those instances there is nothing I can do to respond, since it is done in the distance. But on this board, I can respond, and I will respond, to anyone who even dares to infringe on my right as a human being to believe in the whole Bible. And no one - no one - will get away with telling people to dismiss me simply because I am a Christian.
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Matt H
Dark Trooper Phase 1
Joined: 24 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Dec 18, 2003 23:59 Post subject: |
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I believe GAdRS was referring to this post:
Mattias Welander wrote:
Are you kidding me? Me, liberal? That's like calling Hitler a communist. As a matter of fact I'm so conservative I'd actually be commiting a crime against Swedish law if I listed all my opinions. Seriously.
In it, it states being conservative, but nothing specific about being a Christian. Being one does not necessarily mean being the other, so the connection between them might have been lost. Since GAdRS was talking about being the "voice of Europe," i.e. a way for us non-Europeans to get a better understanding of the workings and views and opinions of the people and governments in Europe, it's very conceivable that GAdRS thought of "conservative" in a more political sense, not in terms of religious conviction.
However, Mattias did later say "Considering that everything I have ever said has been classic conservative Christian opinions, I fail to see how you can interpret anything of it in such way that you can imagine that I'm presenting myself as a liberal." So to his credit, he did put in some context to the term "conservative" that should have been picked up on.
BUT... even if one assumes that GAdRS fully made that connection, he did not say his motivation was due to Matias being a conservative or a Christian; his motivation came from Mattias being so "radical." It's the extremeness of Mattias' opinions, not the fact that he is a Christian. One can be a Christian and not have such "radical" views. It's a matter of degree.
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Mattias Welander
Trandoshan
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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Matt H
Dark Trooper Phase 1
Joined: 24 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Dec 19, 2003 03:00 Post subject: |
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Mattias, I respect your opinion and beliefs on what being a true Christian is. But that does not address my point.
You contend that GAdRS' motivation to encourage others to not listen to you comes from the fact that you are a Christian. Motivation deals with GAdRS' state of mind - what he was thinking, what he believed, and what he understood. Therefore, what it means to truly be a Christian are not relevant to this particular matter, only what GAdRS thought and meant.
You know the full meaning of your statement, that you meant "conservative opinions" to mean "opinions formed because you're a Christian." So when GAdRS referenced the statement as a reason to ignore you, I think you took it in the exact same way, that he was saying that you being a Christian is a reason to ignore you. But it is possible that he misunderstood your statement - maybe a little, maybe a lot - in which case the malicious connotations you got from his reference are not the same as his intentions.
If GAdRS did not fully understand your statement - whether because he took conservative to mean something other than in the Christian sense or he just did not understand that your "radical" views that could potentially get you arrested come from your Christian beliefs, OR if GAdRS believes that one can be a Christian without being radical, and thus had a problem not with you being a Christian but with how radical you are about it, then your being a Christian did not motivate him to encourage people to not listen to your opinions.
In which case, he should perhaps not be placed beneath your contempt. Of course, only he and God know for sure. But my impression is that this was a bit of a misunderstanding.
For the record, I do not agree with encouraging your opinions to be ignored.
I do not agree with dismissing the significance of GAdRS' opinions, either.
Edit - I didn't like how I made a few points, so I tried to improve them.
Last edited by Matt H on Dec 19, 2003 08:08; edited 1 time in total |
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AlexG
Dark Trooper Phase 1
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Dec 19, 2003 03:02 Post subject: |
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Hey, M! Pick up a copy of the Merriam Webster! If you're going to talk to us, then don't take offense if a word means something different in your dialect!
Radical : A person who favors rapid and sweeping changes in laws and methods of government.
That is YOU! "Here's a change that would benefit all. DO IT!"
He isn't saying that believing in the bible or Jesus is "radical" or, as I guess you took it, "way out there; crazy; whacked up". It meant just what the definition says. So there! It had nothing to do with your religion, and I happen to know that GAdRS is a practicing Christian.
YOU on the other hand I have my doubts about. Numerous times now I've seen you turn mean on anyone who speaks even a little ill of the Bible/God/Jesus/Christianity, and it is uncharachteristic of a Christian. Either that, or you're the worst witness in the world. Do you really expect to bring someone to Jesus if you call them a cockroach when they are unhappy? I pity the man who says to you, Mattias, "I HATE GOD!" because unless someone else comes along and saves them, they're going to spend eternity in hell.
And maybe you'll say, "When so-and-so is prepared to discuss it rationally and not insult God, then we'll chat. Untill then he/she is below my contempt." As a Christian, THAT'S NOT YOUR JOB! Your job isn't to sit around and wait for that person to have an epiphany and realize that Jesus and God are there for him and saved him. Your job is to work with that person no matter WHAT they say or do! How many people do you think are sitting on their couch, hating Christians, then suddenly jump up and say, "Gee, I'm glad Jesus is my savior!"? That's right. Nobody. Maybe the reason a lot of people hate us Christians is beacuse they were told that they were, "Below our contempt."
Think about that one for a bit.
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This thread is going to die... isn't it? |
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Tom Manning
Trandoshan
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Dec 19, 2003 04:59 Post subject: |
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Mattias, I don't know if you realize it, but Radical is not just applied to Christians, it is also applied to political ideals, which is what I think GAD ment, I hear what you are saying about being ignored for your faith, as I fellow Christian I have felt that some too, though I know I will feel it even more when I get out of high school. I Know that GAD is a Christian, (or he has said he was, and spoken like one on these boards before) So I don't think he would be attacking you for being a Christian,
Just understand that Radical does not always apply to Christians, or Christian thinking.
_________________
Tom Manning
For all that you hold dear on this good Earth, I bid you, Stand, Men of the West!
Aragorn: Return of the King |
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Mattias Welander
Trandoshan
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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DarthDoctor
Gamorrean
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Dec 19, 2003 14:20 Post subject: |
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Mattias Welander wrote:
Actually, the main reason people hate Christians is because the government tells them to do so.
Post hoc ergo proptor hoc, eh?
I'd like some proof of this as a substanial reason for people to hate Christians.
Perhaps, <devils' advocate>the government tells them to do so, becuase the government represents the majority opinion, so are expressing a sentiment of the people, rather than dragging them to dank dungeons, tying them to walls, beating them with fish, and telling them to hate Christians.</devils' advocate>
_________________
"At least, I think it was primitive DD that was the source of the bug" - Nottheking |
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Mattias Welander
Trandoshan
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Dec 19, 2003 14:52 Post subject: |
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DarthDoctor wrote:
I'd like some proof of this as a substanial reason for people to hate Christians.
Actually, I do not think it is a reason to hate Christians. It's just that they do it anyway.
DarthDoctor wrote:
Perhaps, the government tells them to do so, becuase the government represents the majority opinion
Yes, the majority of the Swedish people as well as virtually all Swedish governments are/have been of the same opinion, that is, they hate Christians. The core reason, however, is that Marx told his followers to do so. So in this particular case it doesn't really matter who's representing who, as both groups involved (the government and the people) share the same views.
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DarthDoctor
Gamorrean
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
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Mattias Welander
Trandoshan
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Dec 19, 2003 16:07 Post subject: |
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Yes, those two quotes do indeed form the core of this part of my argument. I'm sorry, is there something unclear there?
Most people do indeed not reflect on why they hate Christians. They just do it anyway, because the government encourages them to do so. And I do not think they should.
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DarthDoctor
Gamorrean
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Dec 19, 2003 18:04 Post subject: |
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Um... how do they jive?
I mean, the government tells people to hate, which they do, but not because the government tells them to? But that contradicts that the main reason they hate is because of the governemtn.
Or is it that people hate, thus they make the government tell them to hate? But that still doesn't mean that the government is the reason.
I guess I'm just confused with how those two statements, one of which wipes out the other descibe your stance.
_________________
"At least, I think it was primitive DD that was the source of the bug" - Nottheking |
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Mattias Welander
Trandoshan
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Dec 19, 2003 18:21 Post subject: |
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I think you just haven't read the second statement close enough. Try again.
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DarthDoctor
Gamorrean
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Dec 19, 2003 19:10 Post subject: |
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:: shrugs ::
I still make no sense of it, so I disregard it. Sorry.
_________________
"At least, I think it was primitive DD that was the source of the bug" - Nottheking |
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Mattias Welander
Trandoshan
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Dec 19, 2003 19:22 Post subject: |
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Oh, so now you're disregarding me too? In other words, you do agree with GAdRS?
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DarthDoctor
Gamorrean
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
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Mattias Welander
Trandoshan
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Dec 19, 2003 19:45 Post subject: |
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Oh, no, don't come here hiding behind word games. The only way we communicate is by word, so if you ignore my words, you do indeed ignore me.
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Lionel Fouillen
Gamorrean
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Dec 19, 2003 20:59 Post subject: |
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How is Saddam doing, by the way?
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DarthDoctor
Gamorrean
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
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Mattias Welander
Trandoshan
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Dec 19, 2003 21:19 Post subject: |
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If you use them to hide your anti-Christianity, yes.
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DarthDoctor
Gamorrean
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Dec 19, 2003 21:38 Post subject: |
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Well, keep in mind, I'm a Christian.
_________________
"At least, I think it was primitive DD that was the source of the bug" - Nottheking |
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Mattias Welander
Trandoshan
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Dec 19, 2003 22:05 Post subject: |
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Then why are you opposing me when I present Christian values?
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DarthDoctor
Gamorrean
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Dec 19, 2003 22:42 Post subject: |
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I'm not, I'm being confused by what you say.
_________________
"At least, I think it was primitive DD that was the source of the bug" - Nottheking |
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Mattias Welander
Trandoshan
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Dec 19, 2003 23:07 Post subject: |
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Well, then, what do you support?
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