| ...How much of them in a level is acceptable? |
| NONE! I can't stand HOMs at all. They REALLY get on my nerves, you moron! |
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18% |
[ 4 ] |
| A few, as long as I don't notice them! What I can't see can't hurt me, right? |
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45% |
[ 10 ] |
| Some are okay, as long as they don't seriously detract from the level or their reason. |
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36% |
[ 8 ] |
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| Total Votes : 22 |
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| Author |
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Nottheking
Kell Dragon
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
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 Posted: Sep 04, 2004 18:00 Post subject: A question about HOMs... |
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I'm asking this question because I'm debating how I should compromise in a level I'm making. The acitectural deail is currently unprecidented in any DF level currently out, but there's still some HOMs to work out. I'm wonding how much I should be willing to cut to reduce them.
If you're wondering why this isn't in the Levels/Editing section, I can't make polls there. If an Administrator would move this there, it would be appreciated.
[edit]hey, I just realized: how come I CAN make a poll here, anyway? I thought we were limited to the Showcase Forum.[/edit]
_________________
Wake up, George Lucas... The Matrix has you..
Last edited by Nottheking on Sep 07, 2004 14:52; edited 1 time in total |
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Fenwar
Admiral Ackbar
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sep 05, 2004 15:26 Post subject: Re: A question about HOMs... |
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Nottheking wrote:
I'm asking this question because I'm debating how I should compromise in a level I'm making. The acitectural deail is currently unprecidented in any level, but there's still some HOMs to work out. I'm wonding how much I should be willing to cut to reduce them.
I think it depends what you're trying to do... if you want to really wow us with your architectural genius, you can't get away with HOMs; anyone could create an infinitely-detailed, huge space if they wanted, but Barry Brien and Patrick Haslow have demonstrated how huge and impressive areas can be created without those ugly smears.
Basically when I get to the area and I'm looking straight at the architecture I'm supposed to be impressed by, I shouldn't see HOMs. If I wander around and the occasional one appears at certain points, I wouldn't be too shocked though - even Mt. Kurek has HOMs to be found.
If you're more concerned about gameplay, the main thing is whether the HOMs obscure the player's view of the enemy; also when a rifle bolt flies into a HOM it is very distracting if the whole thing remains on screen. If you're setting up a firefight, definitely kill the HOMs.
At the end of the day if you're not sure whether they're too distracting or not, get a couple of alpha testers in. (You could cut out everything but the area you're concerned about if you don't want to release too much at this stage.)
Quote:
If you're wondering why this isn't in the Levels/Editing section, I can't make polls there. If an Administrator would move this there, it would be appreciated.
Done. 
Quote:
[edit]hey, I just realized: how come I CAN make a poll here, anyway? I thought we were limited to the Showcase Forum.[/edit]
Apparently not... GD is more appropriate for some polls than Showcase anyway. I vaguely remember changing this a while back but I don't know why.
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Scape Goat
Dark Trooper Phase 2
Joined: 23 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sep 06, 2004 13:58 Post subject: |
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I think I'm the one who changed that, but I can't be sure.
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Patrick Haslow
Trandoshan
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sep 07, 2004 05:31 Post subject: |
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I think at the final stage of level making, there should be time to refine the craftsmanship, and this includes eliminating HOM effects. Matt and I have done some elaborate INF in The Dark Tide II (me) and IV (Matt), utilizing different sectors that adjoin depending on where the player stands to rid the level of HOM effects. For instance, in DTII, when the player first reaches the garrison they can see the horizon over the guard walls and behind the garrison. This is a narrow, tiny false dummy sector that only later becomes the larger, accessible "back yard cliff" of the garrison. The draw distance between the initial view and the back cliff area was just too large for DF, so we had to fake it. The Dark Tide III's opening sequence approaching the Invisor space station had to pull off the same trick.
My advice- get rid of all HOMs.
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Nottheking
Kell Dragon
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sep 07, 2004 14:52 Post subject: |
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Okay, thanks for the input. The areas I had in question were all corners; I had two areas that, if you backed into them, you would be able to see HOMing in a door to the side, or hallway "side-sectors". They'd really be not too much trouble to remove, though: I just re-arrange them so that the player can't see them from that angle, by making the main hallway sector go slightly arround each collumn, and then use INF to hide the other sectors.
As for interfering with gameplay, they don't affect any of that at all. IF it does get to be a problem, I'll replace some of the sub-sectors (ceiling beams) with 3DOs... It'll have the added advantage of allowing it to actually have space between it and the ceiling, though it'll have to use spirits for solidity if it's to prevent HOMing...
I'm still working quite a bit on it... But there's still quite a lot more to do. I've effectively planned the entire thign already (including writing down how the INF will be scripted), and have merely to work out the exact arcitecture per area, and implement objects/INF, and make the LFD files. Here's the current progress:- Sectors placed: 46
- Verticies/walls placed: 1,967
- Objects placed: 2 (nothing done here so far)
- Percent complete: ~5-8%
- Planned release date: When it's done (actually, I'm guessing sometime arround Spring Break 2005)
P.S. Let me change the phrase... The arcitecture detail surpasses all DF levels currently out. DT III and DT IV are still somewhat boggling my mind, but I'm still working my level (and those signs in DT IV have my head spinning), and have yet to place 3DOs. We'll see, but don't get your hopes up too high.
_________________
Wake up, George Lucas... The Matrix has you.. |
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Fish
Gamorrean
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sep 07, 2004 16:18 Post subject: |
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1967 vertices in 46 sectors! That means, over 42 vertices per sector in average, beating the known record by 3.5x! (The record is held by Mines, with 12 vertices per sector.)
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Nottheking
Kell Dragon
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sep 07, 2004 16:25 Post subject: |
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Fish wrote:
1967 vertices in 46 sectors! That means, over 42 vertices per sector in average, beating the known record by 3.5x! (The record is held by Mines, with 12 vertices per sector.)
Yes, I know, but didn't Mines have 14? Anyway, that was part of my trick to increase detail without HOMs... The area I have finished so far would be the equivalent of roughly 42 sectors, but I just made each far more complex.
I should get some screenies up soon... Not that I'm going to, but I'll try. There's not too much availible right now; I haven't even finished the spaceport.
_________________
Wake up, George Lucas... The Matrix has you.. |
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Patrick Haslow
Trandoshan
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sep 07, 2004 21:46 Post subject: |
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What was this project called again?
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Nottheking
Kell Dragon
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sep 08, 2004 14:36 Post subject: |
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Patrick Haslow wrote:
What was this project called again?
I never gave the name (and I'm still waiting for a page for it), but here it is. Offer a suggestion for improvement if you can, because I'm still working with the first part of the name:
Danuta Base
Operation Skyhook Phase I
In all that I've read & researched, I haven't found anything that truly details what was phase one; DF has phase two, and phase three was stopped in ANH. The plot of the mission so far is that a single rebel operative is sent to Danuta, to create an opening for Kyle Katarn to "infiltrate" the secret base.
The mission itself will be fairly open-ended (for DF), as you must sneak into the (not-so-secret) Imperial Garrison on the world. The first half of the mission will invole the city arround the base, where you must create a "distraction", and somehow gain entry into the heavily guarded base; I've got three methods in mind right now, all of which will be availible to the player.
The second half will be going about the base as you like, taking your pick of sneaking in vent shafts, avoiding patrols, or simply going all-out (cheat codes reccomended; this method would make NTK_SB look easy). Temporarily disable the base, and prepare it for a major rebel feint, then retrace your steps back to the spaceport for the finish.
Although the level will definitely have serious gameplay, I'm also going to use it as a showcase for several of the new techniques I've figured out, including a multi-selection elevator (where you choose the floor you want), and shootable, moving security cameras.
_________________
Wake up, George Lucas... The Matrix has you.. |
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Casey Neumiller
Gamorrean
Joined: 24 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sep 08, 2004 16:14 Post subject: |
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Phase I would probably be Bria Tharen's mission to Toprawa...as I recall, two copies of the Death Star plans were stolen, as the Rebels weren't sure either set would be complete.
Tharen led Red Hand Squadron on an operation that captured and held a communications outpost on Toprawa. The comm outpost had a copy of the plans, which they transmitted to the Tantive IV. Right after the transmission was complete, an Imperial counterattack cut down the comm array, leaving Red Hand without the ability to call for help. Within hours, after heavy fighting and casualties, Red Hand Squadron was completely destroyed, including Tharen.
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Nottheking
Kell Dragon
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sep 08, 2004 16:18 Post subject: |
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Casey Neumiller wrote:
Phase I would probably be Bria Tharen's mission to Toprawa...as I recall, two copies of the Death Star plans were stolen, as the Rebels weren't sure either set would be complete.
Tharen led Red Hand Squadron on an operation that captured and held a communications outpost on Toprawa. The comm outpost had a copy of the plans, which they transmitted to the Tantive IV. Right after the transmission was complete, an Imperial counterattack cut down the comm array, leaving Red Hand without the ability to call for help. Within hours, after heavy fighting and casualties, Red Hand Squadron was completely destroyed, including Tharen.
If that's so (I haven't found anything to that effect in the Guide to the Star Wars Universe Yet, and I thought Bria Tharen only did smuggler work), then I'll simply re-name the mission to indicate that its a preliminary stage of phase 2.
_________________
Wake up, George Lucas... The Matrix has you.. |
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Casey Neumiller
Gamorrean
Joined: 24 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sep 08, 2004 16:42 Post subject: |
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It's from the Han Solo Trilogy by A.C. Crispin. Great books.
Tharen was never a smuggler, as far as I can tell. She was a slave on Ylesia until freed by Solo...and after some time fighting her addictions, she fell in with a Rebel group which was vehemently anti-slavery. After the attack on Ylesia, which caused the final split between her and Solo, she led the mission to Toprawa, where she was killed.
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Tom Manning
Trandoshan
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sep 08, 2004 19:25 Post subject: |
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Great books! In fact, probably my favorite books ever. That and the Han Solo Adventures make up the best six book series ever.
_________________
Tom Manning
For all that you hold dear on this good Earth, I bid you, Stand, Men of the West!
Aragorn: Return of the King |
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Nottheking
Kell Dragon
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sep 09, 2004 14:44 Post subject: |
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Ah. After taking another look at my Guide, It does mention Bria's mission to Topwara, though it didn't mention any connection to acquiring Death Star Plans, only transmitting them; I had presumed she was transferring the set Kyle Katarn grabbed. I haven't gotten to read the Han Solo trilogy yet, though I've been meaning to get it for quite a while...
_________________
Wake up, George Lucas... The Matrix has you.. |
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Nottheking
Kell Dragon
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sep 21, 2004 17:09 Post subject: |
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Bleah. I've been distracted (of course) and haven't done too much work so far... I'll see what I can do in the upcomming weeks. I can still act optimistic here!
_________________
Wake up, George Lucas... The Matrix has you.. |
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