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Nottheking
Kell Dragon
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
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Mattias Welander
Trandoshan
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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 Posted: Sep 15, 2004 18:35 Post subject: |
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Nottheking wrote:
...Aside from waiting for CDark! 
Well, yes, since there wasn't any particular interest in CDark when it was released, I just use it myself, but there are currently no plans for supported release version.
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Jedi Cheddar
Gamorrean
Joined: 13 Sep 2004
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| Posted: Sep 15, 2004 19:56 Post subject: |
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What is CDark?
BTW, sorry the ignorance
_________________
It's good to be a little cheesy... |
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Mattias Welander
Trandoshan
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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Nottheking
Kell Dragon
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sep 15, 2004 21:35 Post subject: |
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Mattias Welander wrote:
Well, yes, since there wasn't any particular interest in CDark when it was released, I just use it myself, but there are currently no plans for supported release version.
Perhaps, if you'd released it to the U.S.A., you might have seen more interest.
Mattias Welander wrote:
Just another Dark Forces editor for Windows.
An understatement if I ever saw one. CDark, at least from the screen shots I saw, was as powerful as Jed (which didn't you have a hand in, Mattias?), including a preview rendering window.
_________________
Wake up, George Lucas... The Matrix has you.. |
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Casey Neumiller
Gamorrean
Joined: 24 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sep 15, 2004 21:44 Post subject: |
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CDark is a very powerful editor. Unfortunately for me, there's a steep learning curve adjusting to it after using Wedit, mostly in terms of keyboard shortcuts. The only thing it lacked that, in my opinion, it could have used, was an INF wizard of some type. All INF had to be done manually.
CDark is very powerful, though. It has the added feature of being compatible with Wedit-created levels, too (unlike WDFUSE).
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Nottheking
Kell Dragon
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sep 15, 2004 21:46 Post subject: |
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What were the feature improvements CDark featured? Didn't it add adjoin/cleaving? Those are the two editing features I wished for most in a DF editor.
_________________
Wake up, George Lucas... The Matrix has you.. |
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Mattias Welander
Trandoshan
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sep 15, 2004 22:48 Post subject: |
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Nottheking wrote:
Perhaps, if you'd released it to the U.S.A., you might have seen more interest.
Well, it was released on the 'net. Last time I checked, the US could access the Internet.
Nottheking wrote:
Jed (which didn't you have a hand in, Mattias?)
I didn't directly write any code for JED. I reverse engineered part of the Jedi Knight data structures for them, and I helped out with the 3D preview in it. I also defined the JK level format extensions for storing editor specific data in the level files, though last time I checked, JED only supported import of that data, but not export.
Casey Neumiller wrote:
CDark... there's a steep learning curve adjusting to it after using Wedit, mostly in terms of keyboard shortcuts.
That is probably true. I haven't used Wedit much at all myself, so the user interface of CDark is closely modelled after WDFUSE, with something like a 95% direct mapping between WDFUSE (well, actually, DFUSE) and CDark.
Casey Neumiller wrote:
The only thing it lacked that, in my opinion, it could have used, was an INF wizard...
That's (partly) why there is a plug in interface and a free SDK for several different languages, for developing the components you want. Me, I wouldn't trust a wizard, and so that's not a tool I'd use.
Casey Neumiller wrote:
All INF had to be done manually.
Not quite true. The INF editor is a programming editor written specifically for INF editing, and is not just a generic text editor. While INF scripts are written on the keyboard as opposed to created with the mouse, the editor still interactively generate and help with commands and structures.
Nottheking wrote:
Didn't it add adjoin/cleaving?
Yes, it does, assuming it means what I think you mean.
Nottheking wrote:
What were the feature improvements CDark featured?
There are many minor features... mostly things I've thought I would like to see myself. Remember that the program has been in development since 1997, so there's been quite a few things added to it over time. The major new features [over MAX(WDFUSE,Wedit)] are probably limited to the realtime interactive 3D preview and the plugin interface.
If there's a renewed interest in it, I could always release it as an unsupported tool, possibly with the source code, though I'm uncertain if anyone here would have any interest in that or ability to use it.
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Nottheking
Kell Dragon
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sep 16, 2004 01:06 Post subject: |
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Mattias Welander wrote:
Well, it was released on the 'net. Last time I checked, the US could access the Internet.
But wasn't that an Alpha? That's the last I heard of it.
Mattias Welander wrote:
I didn't directly write any code for JED. I reverse engineered part of the Jedi Knight data structures for them, and I helped out with the 3D preview in it. I also defined the JK level format extensions for storing editor specific data in the level files, though last time I checked, JED only supported import of that data, but not export.
Yeah, that's what I meant. When I saw that you were listed in the special thanks, I presumed they had borrowed some of your DX expertise when making the preview function. I didn't know about the file formatting, though.
Mattias Welander wrote:
That's (partly) why there is a plug in interface and a free SDK for several different languages, for developing the components you want. Me, I wouldn't trust a wizard, and so that's not a tool I'd use.
Me, I don't use wizards for writing code either (though I used the WDFUSE INF wizard to learn the INF, for about two weeks). A simple text editor, the Microsoft clipboard, and my good 'ol hands are enough for me...
Mattias Welander wrote:
Yes, it does, assuming it means what I think you mean.
presuming I mean the same functions found in Jed. (though I meant merging and cleaving)
Mattias Welander wrote:
If there's a renewed interest in it, I could always release it as an unsupported tool, possibly with the source code, though I'm uncertain if anyone here would have any interest in that or ability to use it.
I'd be interested in using CDark... Though I'm not really much of a programmer, I still am very willing to use unfinished tools (I currently use some right now). And since it's merely an editor, there isn't any worry over security holes that would be expected in unfinished software that can use a network connection.
_________________
Wake up, George Lucas... The Matrix has you.. |
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Fenwar
Admiral Ackbar
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sep 16, 2004 06:56 Post subject: |
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Mattias Welander wrote:
Nottheking wrote:
...Aside from waiting for CDark!
Well, yes, since there wasn't any particular interest in CDark when it was released, I just use it myself, but there are currently no plans for supported release version.
I'd have thought pretty much everyone who comes here would be interested in CDark... in fact I'd go so far as to say it could attract quite a few people back who might have switched to editing more recent games.
And if nothing else, it would increase the chances of Maximum Security being completed within my lifetime from "microscopic" to "slim".
I would definitely try to make use of an SDK too although the only "real" language I'm halfway competent in is Java, which I presume wouldn't be all that useful...
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Mattias Welander
Trandoshan
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sep 16, 2004 11:46 Post subject: |
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Nottheking wrote:
But wasn't that an Alpha?
Yes. And since I've only added features to it for my own use after the public release, it is still alpha software. After all, when you just write a program for your own use, it really never gets truly "complete". It's fully functional, though, I just can't guarantee there are no bugs in it, and in fact I can guarantee there are a some unfinished things left.
Nottheking wrote:
Me, I don't use wizards for writing code either
That is most impressive.
Fenwar wrote:
...it would increase the chances of Maximum Security being completed...
That's nice to hear, but I'd like to stress that people should be very careful about moving their previous projects from a relase quality editor into an alpha quality editor. Remember, your backup software is your best friend.
Fenwar wrote:
I would definitely try to make use of an SDK... I'm halfway competent in is Java, which I presume wouldn't be all that useful
Unfortunately, Java and Visual Basic are pretty much the only languages that can not easily be interfaced with CDark, since they can not create true Windows executable files.
Currently, the SDK support Borland Delphi and several different C and C++ compilers. It should however be very simple to port to other true Win32 compilers as well.
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Nottheking
Kell Dragon
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sep 16, 2004 17:54 Post subject: |
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Mattias Welander wrote:
Yes. And since I've only added features to it for my own use after the public release, it is still alpha software. After all, when you just write a program for your own use, it really never gets truly "complete". It's fully functional, though, I just can't guarantee there are no bugs in it, and in fact I can guarantee there are a some unfinished things left.
But when you write a program purely for your own use, isn't that permanently an Alpha? Of course, there's no gauruntee that any version is bug-free (just take a look at KoTOR)
Mattias Welander wrote:
That's nice to hear, but I'd like to stress that people should be very careful about moving their previous projects from a relase quality editor into an alpha quality editor. Remember, your backup software is your best friend.
Of course we (or at least I) wouldn't rely entirely on a alpha/beta editing tool. I'd always have WDFUSE on hand, and would probably still use it for most DF editing; I'd probably import it into a more powerful editor when I needed the more powerful features, then re-import it into the more reliable editor when I'm done needing it (Since WDFUSE seems to have no real functional in-editor elements in the LVL file, I'd likely just GOB it in one editor, then import it from the GOB in another)
_________________
Wake up, George Lucas... The Matrix has you.. |
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Mattias Welander
Trandoshan
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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Jedi Cheddar
Gamorrean
Joined: 13 Sep 2004
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| Posted: Sep 16, 2004 20:25 Post subject: |
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I never heard the term Alpha before used in the context your using. Is that like a beta's beta? 
_________________
It's good to be a little cheesy... |
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Mattias Welander
Trandoshan
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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Taton
Trandoshan
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sep 20, 2004 19:21 Post subject: |
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Is there any slim cahnce you could use the 3d Preview as standalone.
That would make my day....
_________________
"A fight should be clean and elegant, without waste"
-Asuka Langley Sohryu, Evangelion |
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Mattias Welander
Trandoshan
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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Taton
Trandoshan
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
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Nottheking
Kell Dragon
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
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Mattias Welander
Trandoshan
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sep 21, 2004 17:04 Post subject: |
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Right. Ok, then... In Swedish, it is perfectly possible to formulate questions that are not on the grammatic form of a sentence that should end with a question mark, though I suppose one really should end them that way anyway. Anyway, I sort of assumed that was possible in English as well. Though no matter if that's the case or not, the grammar in Taton's question most certainly required an ending question mark.
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japh
Gamorrean
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sep 27, 2004 22:56 Post subject: |
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What, with all the *other* fractured English online, you think a minor question mark is going to stop anyone?
(That was a rhetorical question: a sentence phrased as a question, having a question mark, but not expecting to be answered.)
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Mattias Welander
Trandoshan
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sep 28, 2004 09:55 Post subject: |
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Om du har sådana problem med min engelska, japh, kanske jag ska skriva helt på svenska istället. Nöjd?
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