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Jake
Dianoga

Joined: 14 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Feb 23, 2010 07:55    Post subject: Hall of Fame View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

I wasn't sure where to put this, but feedback seemed the appropriate place to me. Does anyone else think it's time (or beyond time) for a new Hall of Fame vote? I mean, the last HoF induction was six years ago! Is there some kind of moratorium on it or did interest just fall by the wayside?

I can personally think of several levels off the top of my head that could be HoF material. I think there might be a concern over Dark Tide III and IV dominating it, so this is my suggestion: hold a "yes/no" poll on inclusion, and if it's yes put 'em in - but don't stop there. I mean, they're such shoo-ins it's almost not exciting enough - so hold a contest for a third entry. Also, if there's an issue of space, you could consider making one big page for the entire Dark Tide series.

Here's the long list I've got for consideration for the third entry (based off DF-21 5-star ratings and Crow's Nest percentages):

Assassinate Darth Vader
Asteroid
Back to Yavin
Boba Fett's Revenge
The Bounty Hunt SE
Cloudspear: Part I - The Ghosts of Takyr
DF96: The Ties That Bind
Energy Mine on Parux
The Great Escape
Jungles of Caldoun
Lahara Hotel
The Mystery of the Morning Wood
Operation: Nar Shaddaa Water Treatment Plant
Return to Bespin
The Rock: Gandolo IV
Ruins of Talos SE

Of course, that's a pretty wide selection and my personal list would be a bit shorter, but I just thought I'd do a little prelim. What do you guys think?

_________________
"Pardon me, George, could this be Dianoga poo-poo?" - Mark Hamill

Barry Brien
Dark Trooper Phase 1

Joined: 26 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Feb 23, 2010 16:09    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

Haha I've tried suggesting this a couple of times. I think maybe people were assuming I expected Dark Tide 3/4 to be a shoe in. Honestly I don't. Anyway, since I'm not permitted to nominate any levels that I've worked on I would nominate:

Boba Fett's Revenge
The Great Escape
Don Sielke's DF levels pack
Assassinate Darth Vader
Back To Yavin
Hoerby Trilogy
Lahara Hotel
Return to Bespin


Of course back in the day we were only allowed to nominate 5 levels.

Burning Gundam
Kell Dragon

Joined: 28 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Feb 23, 2010 18:22    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

Barry Brien wrote:
Haha I've tried suggesting this a couple of times. I think maybe people were assuming I expected Dark Tide 3/4 to be a shoe in.


I think it's more that there would be no competition if those two were entered, if just between themselves. It's a shame more levels aren't released so the competition would grow further, far from just the ones we ALWAYS nominate.

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I don't think outside the box... I customize it.

Barry Brien
Dark Trooper Phase 1

Joined: 26 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Feb 23, 2010 21:16    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

Well a lot of levels that came out early in DF's life were constricted by how powerful PCs were back then. There is no way levels like Dark Tide 3 and 4 would have run on PCs before 2000. That's why it's important to remember the older levels like Return To Bespin, that were really pushing the limits of what the hardware was capable of when they were released.

sheepandshepherd
Trandoshan

Joined: 01 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Feb 23, 2010 22:55    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Burning Gundam wrote:
It's a shame more levels aren't released so the competition would grow further, far from just the ones we ALWAYS nominate.


Hopefully interest in DarkXL and in DarkXL's editor will both attract some more modders to the idea. I'm doubtful my first level will make it, but I'll certainly try -- and quite a few people have works in progress right now, so maybe if we wait a bit we'll have some more competition Smile

I agree with the idea that merging the Dark Tide series in the HoF might be a good idea -- that would allow for other entries this time around (either newer releases or the other classics you guys mentioned) while still giving the two new DT levels their (in my opinion) rightful place along with DT1 and Nightfall. This would also work out with space, if that's an issue, as Jake mentioned.

Of course, IF we have another induction, another big thing to consider is when -- as I mentioned above, there are quite a few works in progress that DarkXL's editor could soon really speed up (not to mention the higher quality DXL will allow for in new levels). Also, will we keep separate the DF-compatible levels and the future levels that will use DarkXL extended features?

Here's my suggestion (for now -- haven't thought about it much, so I'm definitely still open to opinions): we could hold a vote now for the older levels, making up for the six years the Hall of Fame's been left untouched, and then worry about future levels later on, after DarkXL becomes a little more "mainstream". After all, it is a Hall of Fame, and fame takes time to build. For now, we should probably just worry about the levels that have been around for a while, long enough to attract the community's attention.

As for my nominations -- mmm, hard choices Razz
Here's the ones that really stood out to me, though I'm probably missing some:
Boba Fett's Revenge
Back to Yavin
The Great Escape
Assassinate Darth Vader
Cloudspear I, obviously

Barry Brien
Dark Trooper Phase 1

Joined: 26 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Feb 24, 2010 03:16    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

How about a Hall Of Shame. The last time I suggested it I was shot down. But hopefully we're all a bit more cynical now. Anyway I'd nominate these stinkers:

Coober
Boba Fett's Gone Mental
Oppressor IV (I know, not allowed to nominate your own work, but still)
Mines

Just looking through the canon of custom missions there are plenty of 1 and 2 star levels that I know I've played, but I just cannot remember, which is not surprising. But the true mark of an awful level is one that you never will forget. I know levels like Imation and such deserve their 1 star rating, but they just didn not have the impact of Mines or Coober.

Burning Gundam
Kell Dragon

Joined: 28 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Feb 24, 2010 05:47    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

Mines doesn't count, it already has it's own tribute page Laughing

_________________
I don't think outside the box... I customize it.

Barry Brien
Dark Trooper Phase 1

Joined: 26 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Feb 24, 2010 06:50    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote

Burning Gundam wrote:
Mines doesn't count, it already has it's own tribute page Laughing



Oops, how did I forget? Embarassed

Jake
Dianoga

Joined: 14 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Feb 24, 2010 06:50    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

^I'm not sure about a Hall of Shame. Although it would be humorous to enshrine those particular levvels for their sheer badness (and it's very sporting of you to include Oppressor IV, Barry!), I'm not fond of the idea of "making fun" of other people's work. However, that might just be my amiable personality. Cool

You also mentioned The Hoerby Trilogy, which is an old favorite of mine that I forgot about. It's been years since I've played it, so I can't remember if it's really HoF material, but I did enjoy it. I've got to agree with you in that the older DF levels are perhaps unfairly overlooked - yes, they're overshadowed by recent works, but they were great back in the day. And besides, if we were such snobs, we wouldn't even be playing a 15 year old game anymore! We have to remember the context of the time, because, hey - that's what we do every time we boot up Dark Forces! Nostalgia is often derided, but to me that's part of what DF-21 is all about.

As a matter of fact, it's been years since I've played most of the levels I mentioned earlier. I just recently got DF up and running in DOSBox on my laptop (hence my renewed interest), so I'll give those a run through and come back with my personal list of levels I'd like to see nominated. I'm currently busy with DF96 - it's quite a bit harder than I remember!

My only concern with consolidating the Dark Tide series into a single entry is that I wouldn't want anyone who worked on it to feel slighted, as we would effectively be putting four levels (and several years) worth of work into one page.

Gez
Gamorrean

Joined: 05 May 2008

PostPosted: Feb 24, 2010 10:07    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Barry Brien wrote:
Well a lot of levels that came out early in DF's life were constricted by how powerful PCs were back then. There is no way levels like Dark Tide 3 and 4 would have run on PCs before 2000. That's why it's important to remember the older levels like Return To Bespin, that were really pushing the limits of what the hardware was capable of when they were released.



You could do like Doomworld did and make a category for each year. There's of course not nearly as many DF mods as there are Doom and Doom 2 mods, so a Top 10 would probably be too much, but a top 3 for each year seems reasonable.

The current HoF:
1995-1999: 0
2000: 2
2001: 3
2002: 2
2003: 1
2004: 3
2005-2010: 0

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