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some level questions.....

 
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Trigger-nometry
Dianoga

Joined: 26 Nov 2004
PostPosted: Nov 26, 2004 22:11    Post subject: some level questions..... View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
What makes putting excessive numbers of enemies in a level so bad? Does it detract from any excitement of the level? Please tell me.

Fish
Gamorrean

Joined: 29 Sep 2003
PostPosted: Nov 26, 2004 22:38    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
No - in my opinion, it just becomes boring after a while never to release the finger from the fire key.
Besides, DF environment also allows puzzles, jumping sequences, etc., and without them, DF becomes just five billionth clone of Space Invaders.

Trigger-nometry
Dianoga

Joined: 26 Nov 2004
PostPosted: Nov 26, 2004 23:28    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
What else should you NOT put in a DF Level? Sorry, June 2004 was the first time I ever sucessfully made a DF level, I did one before in '99 but it had no textures, nothing. It didn't even have the Death Star Plans for god's sake!

Burning Gundam
Kell Dragon

Joined: 28 Sep 2003
PostPosted: Nov 27, 2004 20:42    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote
My ideal level is one that has an even balance of enemies and puzzles with great story with interesting architecture.

_________________
I don't think outside the box... I customize it.

Nottheking
Kell Dragon

Joined: 29 Sep 2003
PostPosted: Nov 27, 2004 22:14    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Trigger-nometry wrote:
What else should you NOT put in a DF Level? Sorry, June 2004 was the first time I ever sucessfully made a DF level, I did one before in '99 but it had no textures, nothing. It didn't even have the Death Star Plans for god's sake!


When I go through and make things, I always ask myself "whjy would this be here?" be the item in question a room, a door, a switch, an item, an enemy, or anything else. If I can answer my question to my satisfaction, then it goes in. On occassion, and answer of "because it's just plain cool" is sufficient, but this should be used sparingly.

Oh, and a swarm of stormtroopers or other minor enemies is a better enemy set than using a couple of boss enemies, in most situations.

_________________
Wake up, George Lucas... The Matrix has you..

Trigger-nometry
Dianoga

Joined: 26 Nov 2004
PostPosted: Nov 28, 2004 00:18    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Before I ask you to define "puzzles", would you consider looking around a level for a key a "puzzle"?

Nottheking
Kell Dragon

Joined: 29 Sep 2003
PostPosted: Nov 28, 2004 04:02    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Trigger-nometry wrote:
Before I ask you to define "puzzles", would you consider looking around a level for a key a "puzzle"?


Not really. What we define as "puzzles" are parts where the player must make use of a dynamic part of the level (I.E; using INF code) to accomplish something, be it an actualy mission objective, or collecting a key, or something else. If you'd like some inspiration here, I might reccomend playing the DF addon level "Imperial Academy." You can find it in the Downloads Section. Play through that level, and note all the "nifty" things you have to do to get through. Those are the kind of things that we mean by "puzzles."

_________________
Wake up, George Lucas... The Matrix has you..

Trigger-nometry
Dianoga

Joined: 26 Nov 2004
PostPosted: Nov 28, 2004 23:22    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
All right. I have some trouble making proper INF files..... the best I can do is save my object and level data and have INFEdit make an INF for them and turn them into a GOB. I don't know how to edit scripts very well, either. I'm trying to make a switch operated door for one of my missions.

japh
Gamorrean

Joined: 30 Sep 2003
PostPosted: Nov 29, 2004 23:04    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Trigger-nometry wrote:
Before I ask you to define "puzzles", would you consider looking around a level for a key a "puzzle"?



Not if it's like Nervous bloody Breakdown. Thousands of doors, most of them locked (permanently).

Trigger-nometry
Dianoga

Joined: 26 Nov 2004
PostPosted: Nov 30, 2004 02:26    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
By the way how do you write TXT.MSG files? I tried it last weekend, but no avail. My messages simply wouldn't display in the mission. I need some testers for my abridged "WEIRD PALACE" mission, anyone interested?

Nottheking
Kell Dragon

Joined: 29 Sep 2003
PostPosted: Nov 30, 2004 16:15    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Trigger-nometry wrote:
By the way how do you write TXT.MSG files? I tried it last weekend, but no avail. My messages simply wouldn't display in the mission. I need some testers for my abridged "WEIRD PALACE" mission, anyone interested?


Out of curiousity, what DF editing programs are you using?

Anyway, there are a few things you need to make sure you've gotten when you implement new messages in the TXT.MSG file. First of all, make sure that each new message has a new three-digit number before it, that is unique to the message. Next, you need to make sure that the value of the messages variable at the top of the file matches the number of messages given numbers in the file; just simply add the number of new messages you're adding to whatever the value is already there in the default file. Lastly, keep in mind that only a class trigger item can display messages; class elevator items cannot do this; this may very well be your problem, as you don't mention having any real errors, merely a lack of the messages displaying.

_________________
Wake up, George Lucas... The Matrix has you..

Trigger-nometry
Dianoga

Joined: 26 Nov 2004
PostPosted: Nov 30, 2004 22:28    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
I'm using the DF Gold Package.
So, if I have only one message, I just write "1" at the top, correct?

japh
Gamorrean

Joined: 30 Sep 2003
PostPosted: Nov 30, 2004 22:43    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
You have an empty TXT.MSG file? do you get *any* messages at all?

Trigger-nometry
Dianoga

Joined: 26 Nov 2004
PostPosted: Dec 01, 2004 01:15    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
It was not empty. It only had one item, but none of the messages, even the presets were displayed at all.

Nottheking
Kell Dragon

Joined: 29 Sep 2003
PostPosted: Dec 01, 2004 04:14    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Trigger-nometry wrote:
It was not empty. It only had one item, but none of the messages, even the presets were displayed at all.


Hmm... You could use a replacement to your TXT.MSG file, then. I'd first extract the one out of your DARK.GOB file, and see if that's any good. If so, then use that as your starting point for your file; it includes all the messages whose uses are already hard-coded into the game.

_________________
Wake up, George Lucas... The Matrix has you..

Trigger-nometry
Dianoga

Joined: 26 Nov 2004
PostPosted: Dec 01, 2004 21:46    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Oh, I never even thought of that......how stupid of me.... thanks, Nottheking.

Can anyone teach me how to make a switch operated door?
Is anyone still interested in testing my mission?

Fenwar
Admiral Ackbar
Admiral Ackbar

Joined: 15 Sep 2003
PostPosted: Dec 02, 2004 10:22    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
The WDFUSE tutorial contains a handy guide to such things. Even if you're using WEdit (which you shouldn't be Wink ) it will help.

Well worth working through.

Tom Manning
Trandoshan

Joined: 27 Sep 2003
PostPosted: Dec 02, 2004 15:32    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote
I'll test your mission, but first, make sure you want it seen yet, if you think it's still to early to let anyone see your work, don't show it yet.

_________________
Tom Manning
For all that you hold dear on this good Earth, I bid you, Stand, Men of the West!
Aragorn: Return of the King

Trigger-nometry
Dianoga

Joined: 26 Nov 2004
PostPosted: Dec 02, 2004 22:32    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Fenwar, I don't have WDFUSE. I have Dark Forge and the Dark Forge Editing spellbook.

jimbo
Gamorrean

Joined: 29 Feb 2004
PostPosted: Dec 03, 2004 03:43    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
I haven't tested it, but I think Fenwar provided a link to download WDFuse so that you could look through its files. If you can't see the link (crazier things have happened) move your mouse over "WDFUSE Tutorial" in Fenwar's last post.

If for some insane reason (this is DF-21 after all) Fenwar gave you a link to something other than a WDFuse download, the program can be found in the DOWNLOADS section of this site. There should be a link to that on the home page and then the program is in EDITORS & UTILITIES (download the first two files if you are going to use WDFuse for editing or download just the second file for the tutorial).

As others have said, WDFuse has a very helpful tutorial. I don't know if the key configurations are the same in WDFuse as they are in Dark Forge, but the tutorial should give you a better idea of what's going on.

Fenwar
Admiral Ackbar
Admiral Ackbar

Joined: 15 Sep 2003
PostPosted: Dec 03, 2004 08:39    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
The link was to the "common files" download which contains the tutorial. Although some of the controls may differ, a lot of it will still apply to Dark Forge too. It definitely covers how to make a switch controlled door.

Unless you can't open it because it's in Windows Help format... Darn it. Maybe someone should translate that tutorial (and the DF specs) into HTML once and for all...?

Trigger-nometry
Dianoga

Joined: 26 Nov 2004
PostPosted: Dec 04, 2004 03:39    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Oh well, lets just skip that for now.... how do you convert different pallettes of different BMs to using in missions? (i.e. a ROBOTICS.PAL BM to use in a JABSHIP Level?)

Matt H
Dark Trooper Phase 1

Joined: 24 Sep 2003
PostPosted: Dec 05, 2004 00:42    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Fenwar wrote:
Maybe someone should translate that tutorial (and the DF specs) into HTML once and for all...?



The DF specs can be found here:
http://www.codealliance.ca/Docs/darkforces/spc_home/df_specs.htm

The whole thing can be downloaded here:
http://www.codealliance.ca/Docs/darkforces/dfsht302.zip
Code Alliance wrote:
Unofficial Darkforces file formats specs. version 3.02
Html format for use in your favorite browser, must support frames. "df_specs.htm" is the start page.



Actually, we should problably grab all of their DF files as backup, just in case anything ever happens to Code Alliance.

We should also change the link on the links page from code-alliance.ca to codealliance.ca.

Nottheking
Kell Dragon

Joined: 29 Sep 2003
PostPosted: Dec 06, 2004 17:42    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Trigger-nometry wrote:
Oh well, lets just skip that for now.... how do you convert different pallettes of different BMs to using in missions? (i.e. a ROBOTICS.PAL BM to use in a JABSHIP Level?)


Well, that would require some work. Normally, the vast majority of levels made are with SECBASE.PAL, so there are a variety of BMs already availible for download on this site that have been converted to this pallette.

_________________
Wake up, George Lucas... The Matrix has you..

japh
Gamorrean

Joined: 30 Sep 2003
PostPosted: Dec 06, 2004 20:09    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
I could mirror (download all the files, anyway) code-alliance, but I don't want to.

As for the FAQ etc., I just converted them to HTML files. Slight problem, though, with file paths but I think I can fix that. The file names are all phrikked up.

Umm, could we please not post several topics under thes ame thread?

Edit: I won't bother with the FAQ conversion if no one expresses an interest.

Trigger-nometry
Dianoga

Joined: 26 Nov 2004
PostPosted: Dec 07, 2004 23:02    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Japh wrote: "could we not post different topics on the same thread?"

Japh, the purpose of this is to help me with DF editing, not to mention others who are not veteran DF editors.

japh
Gamorrean

Joined: 30 Sep 2003
PostPosted: Dec 08, 2004 01:51    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Well, excuse me.

Nottheking
Kell Dragon

Joined: 29 Sep 2003
PostPosted: Dec 08, 2004 23:28    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
japh wrote:
Well, excuse me.


Well, Trigger-nometry does have a point. This thread's title, as I can most distinctly tell, is "some level questions....." Matt H added a little suggestion on the Code Alliance files after his post, and you took that to mean a shift in the whole topic.

_________________
Wake up, George Lucas... The Matrix has you..

Trigger-nometry
Dianoga

Joined: 26 Nov 2004
PostPosted: Dec 11, 2004 01:33    Post subject: View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
It's all right, Japh.
I hope you didn't take offense to "veteran".

One more announcement:
WEIRD PALACE needs extensive work so I will not be able to release my abridged level to anyone yet, so sorry Tom Manning.

My level will probably get a 2 out of 5 stars anyways even with correction.

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